Have you managed to get out to do any timed runs with this new cloned ECU???
Emira JB4 Tuning Now Available for I4 & V6 Cars!
- Thread starter GRP
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OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #1,362
What a bummer to hear!
As Squish mentioned we have had a decent number of auto guys running the JB4 units with no issues so far, so you would be the first reported if it was actually caused by it.
Did you do or the shop do any verification/diag without the JB4 connected after the issue started? That would have been the first step I would have recommended -- disconnect the unit, reset and try it out.
If it was in fact just a solenoid its crazy they would not just swap that out, those are a few $100 from Toyota and super easy to install. I wish you would have emailed me prior to doing an entire transmission.
Sometimes the TCU can "think" its a solenoid failure when in fact its actually seeing or not seeing what it wants from an shaft input speed sensor/output speed sensor caused by a slipping clutch pack or similar. The auto transmissions are fickle units sometimes.
I haven't drive it for the last few months sigh
I’ll drive your car for you while I’m in China
Yes, technically it would have been possible to replace just the solenoid.
However, the issue is that the pressure/spec of that solenoid is not exactly the same as a standard basic Toyota solenoid, so there was no real guarantee how long it would actually last.
Also, replacing it is not a simple quick job — you still have to remove the entire engine, drop the whole gearbox, drain all fluids, and basically do a full teardown. It’s a huge amount of labor either way.
That’s why I decided to buy a completely new transmission instead, and I’m keeping the old one as a backup in case anything happens again or if I need parts in the future.
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #1,367
That is incorrect, the transmission uses stock U660 toyota internal parts, they are untouched by Lotus for these cars.
Replacing the solenoid is done by dropping the pan and filter then unbolting it from the valve body. I have done it myself in the past, its about a 2 hour job for a qualified technician.
We've tuned several 100 Emira's at this point many of them automatic with zero issues reported even on the more aggressive maps. The way the JB4 for this supercharged application works on the back end is a bit different than how we handle tuning for turbocharged applications, which further reduces any transmission concerns.
OPs post clearly sounds like a faulty component. Over powering the trans would result in disk wear not a failed shift solenoid.
We're not looking to be anyone's partner in invalid warranty claims, but the way the JB4 operates, the vehicle can never be aware its making more than the factory boost/power/torque levels or the ECU will limp mode and the tuning just won't work. This has been proven many times at this point by people taking their cars in. Compare that to flash tuning where every module on the vehicle receives the true higher than factory power/torque level reports and stores those. When you flash an ECU that evidence can never be removed from the vehicle even with an ECU swap. Really no comparison on that front.
Not been in the loop but are you trying to tell your customers that swapping the ECU avoids detection? Because we both know that is a lie on many levels. Not only does the stability control, TCU, and other modules store true peak load/torque requests (which with a flash tune are higher than factory), but the ECU and KOMBI (dash module) both store vehicle mileage and hours of operation and flag any mismatch. So if you remove the factory ECU for an hour for example they can later see that easily. That whole system was setup to stop mileage scammers but is commonly used to check for ECU swaps.
We have an in-house Tundra, Tacoma, and Supra. We get every ECU update we can from a local dealer and slip them free parts to scan them regularly to try to find any evidence of tuning, just so we know what is coming down the pipeline and if our software needs any updates for it. Not come across any general detection issues. The few I know who were detected were from other bolt on modifications, and in at least two cases, from social media posts admitting modifications.
I'm not here promoting a sale. I'm responding to concerns about the potential for automatic transmission damage. Why are you someone who offers a competitive product farming for customers in what is clearly the JB4 support/sale thread?
We have many employees and even more dealers and affiliates. So I can't personally monitor what everyone says in every email or chat. But they are trained to say and our terms and conditions are very clear that operating your vehicle outside of the factory specifications may result in warranty denial. It's also true that the JB4 does not leave a trace behind when removed, and that isn't because we're trying to help people dodge warranty denial, but because that is simply how the JB4 has to be for the tuning to operate. Otherwise the ECU limps and throws fault codes.
The heart of how the JB4 works is by manipulating data to the ECU in such a way to have it run off more powerful internal mapping. What makes the supercharged applications more unique is that boost is generally fixed by the belt/pully. So we're using a unique somewhat proprietary method to get it to run at higher power levels. The key with the transmissions on this platform and others is to have them observe enough torque that they are providing max clamping force but not so much they trigger implausible values. Each platform in that regard is different and the DCT platforms have always been the most challenging. But as I always say the proof is in the pudding. We've tuned maybe 40,000? cars since 2008 mostly automatics and the flash tuners have been making the same JB4 TCU claims as far back as I can remember. Other than a handful of unique situations or obvious setting mistakes we've never had general transmission issues reported with the JB4 maps.
It's funny to see you claim "no one cares about data" when the JB4 is one of the few system that not only monitors that data for you full time checking for issues but lets you record, view, and share it via the free JB4PRO app.
We have many employees and even more dealers and affiliates. So I can't personally monitor what everyone says in every email or chat. But they are trained to say and our terms and conditions are very clear that operating your vehicle outside of the factory specifications may result in warranty denial. It's also true that the JB4 does not leave a trace behind when removed, and that isn't because we're trying to help people dodge warranty denial, but because that is simply how the JB4 has to be for the tuning to operate. Otherwise the ECU limps and throws fault codes.
The heart of how the JB4 works is by manipulating data to the ECU in such a way to have it run off more powerful internal mapping. What makes the supercharged applications more unique is that boost is generally fixed by the belt/pully. So we're using a unique somewhat proprietary method to get it to run at higher power levels. The key with the transmissions on this platform and others is to have them observe enough torque that they are providing max clamping force but not so much they trigger implausible values. Each platform in that regard is different and the DCT platforms have always been the most challenging. But as I always say the proof is in the pudding. We've tuned maybe 40,000? cars since 2008 mostly automatics and the flash tuners have been making the same JB4 TCU claims as far back as I can remember. Other than a handful of unique situations or obvious setting mistakes we've never had general transmission issues reported with the JB4 maps.
It's funny to see you claim "no one cares about data" when the JB4 is one of the few system that not only monitors that data for you full time checking for issues but lets you record, view, and share it via the free JB4PRO app.
I have a feeling "someone" was trying to sell their customers expensive ECU swaps to "avoid detection" and I accidentally stepped all over the racket with commonly known general information. Was not my intention. But I will say when your competition is coming into your support thread to try to stir things up for themselves you know you're doing something right.
Confidently states there is literally no such thing as more powerful internal mapping. Then next sentence describes a technical method for accessing more powerful internal mapping.
Yes some tables are indexed for load positions, but other tables are indexed for base barometric pressure, charge air temperatures, and several other inputs. Finding the right combination of table changes to achieve the desired boost, timing, and air/fuel ratio is the skill. And can be especially tricky when you don't always have access to the DAMOS to look directly. The JB4 system has to make changes, monitor them, adapt, and learn in real time. There is a reason its often imitated but rarely duplicated.
For those interested in some of the back-end details our recent C8 ZR1 video offers a little design insight.
Confidently states there is literally no such thing as more powerful internal mapping. Then next sentence describes a technical method for accessing more powerful internal mapping.
Yes some tables are indexed for load positions, but other tables are indexed for base barometric pressure, charge air temperatures, and several other inputs. Finding the right combination of table changes to achieve the desired boost, timing, and air/fuel ratio is the skill. And can be especially tricky when you don't always have access to the DAMOS to look directly. The JB4 system has to make changes, monitor them, adapt, and learn in real time. There is a reason its often imitated but rarely duplicated.
For those interested in some of the back-end details our recent C8 ZR1 video offers a little design insight.
My 2019 NSX stock made 573 horse power. After Fabspeed parts were installed, like the ZR1, and the JB4 on Map 3 with 100 octane it made around 700 horse power.
How is it that my NSX made more power from stock than the ZR1 that has double the horse power stock?
The ZR1 picked up around 220whp peak at 6000rpm. But remember we design the tuning systems not the engines. As a general rule the more aggressive the factory tuning the less is left on the table for tuning gains. And the ZR1 is tuned aggressively from the factory for sure!
The way I look at it ECU and piggyback chip tuning are for completely different applications. Piggyback tuning is great for smaller gains and quick DIY and removable installation (whether the cars computer records this or not is neither here nor there) and ECU tuning is for more precise tuning with much greater control and power potential, but at a much greater cost. You are definitely not going to achieve anywhere near the same power gains and reliability as a 'correctly' tuned ECU. But sometime that little bit of extra power at a much lower price is all you require.
I'm in the ECU tuning camp, but if I still can't find anyone in Western Australia able to do this (even remotely utilising another company overseas) then I'll definitely be considering a JB4.
I'm in the ECU tuning camp, but if I still can't find anyone in Western Australia able to do this (even remotely utilising another company overseas) then I'll definitely be considering a JB4.
This is like a Chicken and Beef producer fighting about who has a better product that is best for you. I love Beef but will eat Chicken, my wife loves Chicken but will eat Beef.
It’s just a preference thing! I Have 2 JB4, one in a BMW M 4, one in my Emira I4. It’s my Beef and love them
It’s just a preference thing! I Have 2 JB4, one in a BMW M 4, one in my Emira I4. It’s my Beef and love them
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Dude, there is no definitive proof that a transmission failed because of the JB4, and in fact based on Terry’s track record with thousands of deployments it’s very unlikely. Additionally, there is no proof of a working ECU flash for an Emira (not an Evora) from your camp (yeah yeah the dyno results are coming). I was really hopeful - and still am - that you are successful. But I’m out simply because of the lack of professionalism that I worry would carry over to purchases.
If you have a product in hand that delivers the results you claim there is no need to denigrate others. And please don’t say “I’m just providing information” as that would be insulting on multiple levels.
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