V6 FE dyno results and weight

[kitkat]

I don’t think this has been posted anywhere on the forum yet but Litchfield posted a dyno of their Emira stock and with their exhaust. They obviously meant 396bhp not 496bhp for the exhaust with the third cat in place.

Seems the car is a little bit restricted with the third cat.

The power output stock is also rather disappointing again — 388bhp calculated probably puts it around 320whp based on their whp of the numbers shown here.

 

[TomAce]

It's obviously beneficial getting this cat delete pipe, if you don't care about your environment.

I'm asking myself what kind of catalytic converter Lotus uses here. Is it a ceramic monolith or is already a stainless steel honeycomb like HJS uses for their catalytic converters? And what cpsi do they use?

 

[kitkat]

It's obviously beneficial getting this cat delete pipe, if you don't care about your environment.

I'm asking myself what kind of catalytic converter Lotus uses here. Is it a ceramic monolith or is already a stainless steel honeycomb like HJS uses for their catalytic converters? And what cpsi do they use?

If it makes anyone feel any better — it’s already got two other cats one on each bank.

 

[TomAce]

If it makes anyone feel any better — it’s already got two other cats one on each bank.

These are the ones you need to get rid off first.

And then one main cat with 100 cpsi or 200cpsi, that would be most beneficial. These near-engine-head mounted cats are only there in order to cut emissions during first 60 seconds as they heat up rapidly and get into their working window much sooner.

 

[Eagle7]

Something about this just seems off for some reason. Not exactly sure why. I'm also curious as to why the ambient air temp is 60 degrees F, but the intake air temp is 80 degrees F. Without being able to see an actual car, how long is the air intake tube from the side of the car? What's heating up the intake air by 20 degrees? Depending on the setup, might be an opportunity to put some heat reflection foil on the outside of the air intake system.

 

[KAR120C]

Something about this just seems off for some reason. Not exactly sure why. I'm also curious as to why the ambient air temp is 60 degrees F, but the intake air temp is 80 degrees F. Without being able to see an actual car, how long is the air intake tube from the side of the car? What's heating up the intake air by 20 degrees? Depending on the setup, might be an opportunity to put some heat reflection foil on the outside of the air intake system.

The IAT sensor may be on the boosted side of the supercharger. Some cars integrate the IAT with the Boost pressure sensor. So, that would account for the increase in temperature.

 

[Rudolph]

Something about this just seems off for some reason. Not exactly sure why. I'm also curious as to why the ambient air temp is 60 degrees F, but the intake air temp is 80 degrees F. Without being able to see an actual car, how long is the air intake tube from the side of the car? What's heating up the intake air by 20 degrees? Depending on the setup, might be an opportunity to put some heat reflection foil on the outside of the air intake system.

* * * * *
My 2021 Evora GT 410 Sport IPS has 3 temp. meters.
With outside temp. 16 degr. C / 60 degr. F and fully warmed engine I have the next temperatures with the compressor V6:
- Engine oil.....................................80 degr. C / 176 degr. F
- Auto. converter cooler........60 degr. C / 140 degr. F
- Charge cooler water...........40 degr. C / 104 degr F
So the air intake temp. of 80 degr. F seems rather understandable.......

 

[Cachaco131]

It's obviously beneficial getting this cat delete pipe, if you don't care about your environment.

I'm asking myself what kind of catalytic converter Lotus uses here. Is it a ceramic monolith or is already a stainless steel honeycomb like HJS uses for their catalytic converters? And what cpsi do they use?

Does solar panels count as being Net Zero from a car fleet perspective? 😁

 

[VL3X]

I don’t think this has been posted anywhere on the forum yet but Litchfield posted a dyno of their Emira stock and with their exhaust. They obviously meant 396bhp not 496bhp for the exhaust with the third cat in place.

Seems the car is a little bit restricted with the third cat.

The power output stock is also rather disappointing again — 388bhp calculated probably puts it around 320whp based on their whp of the numbers shown here.

View attachment 27579

I just don't understand how there's so much drivetrain loss with the Emira's mid engine RWD setup... Are they just overrating these?

My AWD STI didn't even have that much loss. It put down something like 341WHP/356TQ with just an exhaust and tune and was rated at 300hp/300tq crank from the factory.

 

[KAR120C]

I just don't understand how there's so much drivetrain loss with the Emira's mid engine RWD setup... Are they just overrating these?

My AWD STI didn't even have that much loss. It put down something like 341WHP/356TQ with just an exhaust and tune and was rated at 300hp/300tq crank from the factory.

The dyno measures WHP. They entered a standard 15% drivetrain loss to arrive at an engine HP.

 

[ADC]

I just don't understand how there's so much drivetrain loss with the Emira's mid engine RWD setup... Are they just overrating these?

My AWD STI didn't even have that much loss. It put down something like 341WHP/356TQ with just an exhaust and tune and was rated at 300hp/300tq crank from the factory.

Perhaps the drivetrain is tuned to be Very British? "I say, would you wheels just mind turning a bit now, if that isn't too much trouble? In a minute you say? Jolly good."

 

[KCMO68_510]

I may be bad at math, but if they used a 15% drivetrain loss to get to 388, it would argue that a 17% assumption of drivetrain loss gets you to where Lotus states the car to be.

If it's overstated (IF), it's not by a crazy amount.

 

[VL3X]

The dyno measures WHP. They entered a standard 15% drivetrain loss to arrive at an engine HP.

Unless I'm reading this wrong (and I certainly might be... it's been a long day), that dyno chart is showing crank power in the chart (red lines/numbers at top). Final pull with the exhaust mod showed 397.5 HP engine power, 409 HP corrected power and finally 337.7 HP at the wheels (blue number). Which means its calculating 17.5% drivetrain loss, right?

This chart also shows the stock pull measuring 388 crank HP. So assuming their 17.5% calculation, the stock wheel power is ~320WHP.

For comparison (source @ 14m15s mark):

• The New Nissan Z is advertised at 400HP/350TQ and put down 374WHP/326 ft-lb
• The new Supra is advertised at 382HP/368TQ and put down 404WHP/422 ft-lb

Why is the Emira rated at 400HP and putting down 320WHP? 🧐

 

[kitkat]

Then theres this one...

308whp ... corrected to 417hp

rullata 1° STAGE

FASE 1° SUONO

www.emiraforum.com

 

[VL3X]

Then theres this one...

308whp ... corrected to 417hp

rullata 1° STAGE

FASE 1° SUONO

www.emiraforum.com

Can we just admit and agree that the Emira is underpowered for 2023 and its price range? What are the new 4.0 Caymans putting down?

 

[kitkat]

Can we just admit and agree that the Emira is underpowered for 2023 and its price range? What are the new 4.0 Caymans putting down?

Cayman GTS 4.0
Claimed 394 bhp => Dyno 364whp

718 GT4
Claimed 414 bhp => Dyno 374whp

This is all without knowing ambient conditions.

 

[MaybeNeedEmira]

Starting to think I'm in a good spot with a 4 year old car that handles great, carries luggage and loves being spanked at the track THEN can do this all-day-long if you're into that.
First time using the 0-60 measurement with no official launch feature on the car. Rears might be heat-cycled out as well. Would definitely drop a bit of air to help grip.

I'll take an Emira test drive when I can, but damn .. hope the I4 moves.

 

[KAR120C]

Unless I'm reading this wrong (and I certainly might be... it's been a long day), that dyno chart is showing crank power in the chart (red lines/numbers at top). Final pull with the exhaust mod showed 397.5 HP engine power, 409 HP corrected power and finally 337.7 HP at the wheels (blue number). Which means its calculating 17.5% drivetrain loss, right?

This chart also shows the stock pull measuring 388 crank HP. So assuming their 17.5% calculation, the stock wheel power is ~320WHP.

For comparison (source @ 14m15s mark):

• The New Nissan Z is advertised at 400HP/350TQ and put down 374WHP/326 ft-lb
• The new Supra is advertised at 382HP/368TQ and put down 404WHP/422 ft-lb

Why is the Emira rated at 400HP and putting down 320WHP? 🧐

Since all dyno calcs come from WHP, you have to take the WHP/(1-drivetrain loss)=BHP. So 333.7/.85=397.5. THEN, you apply the correction factor for temp and altitude to get the standardized (corrected) crank hp. So, according to that it's pulling 409 at the crank. If you want to get the whole picture, then you take the 409hp and take out 15% of that (61.35) to get a corrected WHP of 347.7.

So, Emira HP = 409 crank HP and putting down 347.7 WHP

 

[KCMO68_510]

Unless I'm reading this wrong (and I certainly might be... it's been a long day), that dyno chart is showing crank power in the chart (red lines/numbers at top). Final pull with the exhaust mod showed 397.5 HP engine power, 409 HP corrected power and finally 337.7 HP at the wheels (blue number). Which means its calculating 17.5% drivetrain loss, right?

This chart also shows the stock pull measuring 388 crank HP. So assuming their 17.5% calculation, the stock wheel power is ~320WHP.

For comparison (source @ 14m15s mark):

• The New Nissan Z is advertised at 400HP/350TQ and put down 374WHP/326 ft-lb
• The new Supra is advertised at 382HP/368TQ and put down 404WHP/422 ft-lb

Why is the Emira rated at 400HP and putting down 320WHP? 🧐

I thought it was showing 337.7 HP at the wheels and that being 397.5 crank power (these numbers have to be the comparables, because look at the drag number, it's literally just these two numbers subtracted from each other), which is pretty on the nose 15% drivetrain loss assumption.

Also, I'm not too concerned about other cars posted dyno numbers to be honest. Unless you compare two cars on the same dyno back to back you can get wildly different results. As an example, the Komotec dyno that started this thread had the Emira wheel horsepowere at like 353-ish. Comparing an Emira mid-dyno number to a highest possible dyno number for another car will just drive you crazy.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I thought it was showing 337.7 HP at the wheels and that being 397.5 crank power (these numbers have to be the comparables, because look at the drag number, it's literally just these two numbers subtracted from each other), which is pretty on the nose 15% drivetrain loss assumption.

Also, I'm not too concerned about other cars posted dyno numbers to be honest. Unless you compare two cars on the same dyno back to back you can get wildly different results. As an example, the Komotec dyno that started this thread had the Emira wheel horsepowere at like 353-ish. Comparing an Emira mid-dyno number to a highest possible dyno number for another car will just drive you crazy.

Said another way, this chart is all for the same pull I believe. 397.5 minus 337.5 = 59.8 Drag Loss, which is a 15% loss. They then "corrected" the power numbers for whatever the DIN 70020 & Qv =0% means (someone smarter please jump in) to get to their stated 409 for the Milltek + Delete.

Overall this just says it's a more conservative dyno that was used and this dyno is making an underlying assumption of 15% drivetrain loss and adjusting for some other known factors.