V6 Auto 0-60mph change?

[CDM1855]

The First Edition Emira has emissions regulations to meet the last edition Evora didn't, as a result it's slightly heavier than the last edition Evora, and it doesn't rev quite as high as the last edition Evora. I'm guessing it generates a bit more downforce at speed than the last edition Evora, so why does it not make sense that the first edition Emira loaded with all the options is slightly slower than the last edition Evora that wasn't? That is, presuming your main measure of performance is straight line acceleration. It's not surprising at all that a lighter car with slightly more horsepower and a higher rev limit would be slightly faster.

@Eagle7 I get that but that’s not the point

The point is that at the launch they declared the Auto had higher torque and was quicker than the manual, now suddenly the figures show it’s slower than the manual. They have had a long time to work this out

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

The First Edition Emira has emissions regulations to meet the last edition Evora didn't, as a result it's slightly heavier than the last edition Evora, and it doesn't rev quite as high as the last edition Evora. I'm guessing it generates a bit more downforce at speed than the last edition Evora, so why does it not make sense that the first edition Emira loaded with all the options is slightly slower than the last edition Evora that wasn't? That is, presuming your main measure of performance is straight line acceleration. It's not surprising at all that a lighter car with slightly more horsepower and a higher rev limit would be slightly faster.

To clarify, sorry for my English:

I expected Emira Auto to be slower 0-100 than Evora GT 410 Sport.

What I don't get is Emira Auto being slower than Emira Manual, at least for us mortals.
I would never be able to shift on a Manual as fast as Auto.
But then I wouldn't know either what effect could have the emissions regulations in acceleration between Manual and Auto, both with same horsepower.

 

[Eagle7]

@Eagle7 I get that but that’s not the point

The point is that at the launch they declared the Auto had higher torque and was quicker than the manual, now suddenly the figures show it’s slower than the manual. They have had a long time to work this out

At launch it was a prototype, not even pre-production. AS ALWAYS in situations like that, numbers are estimates and specifications are subject to change without notice. Final production cars that have passed homologation show numbers very slightly lower than original projected estimates. Not a surprise, and not the end of the world. In fact it shows their original projected estimates were pretty darned close.

 

[Eagle7]

To clarify, sorry for my English:

I expected Emira Auto to be slower 0-100 than Evora GT 410 Sport.

What I don't get is Emira Auto being slower than Emira Manual, at least for us mortals.
I would never be able to shift on a Manual as fast as Auto.
But then I wouldn't know either what effect could have the emissions regulations in acceleration between Manual and Auto, both with same horsepower.

This is the issue. Once they had to start putting the car through the testing process for certification, if it wasn't passing, they had to start tweaking things downward slightly until it did pass. I hope people realize that if Lotus could have gotten the car to pass with a higher rev limit and more horsepower, they certainly would have. Considering all the issues they were struggling with in the middle of a global pandemic, I'm glad they were able to hang in there through it all, and get the car into production anyways.

I have no doubt that companies like Komotec and others will have software upgrades available to change both the engine performance, and transmission shift logic for the auto trans. At least we have cars to modify and upgrade.

 

[Pegasi]

This is the issue. Once they had to start putting the car through the testing process for certification, if it wasn't passing, they had to start tweaking things downward slightly until it did pass. I hope people realize that if Lotus could have gotten the car to pass with a higher rev limit and more horsepower, they certainly would have. Considering all the issues they were struggling with in the middle of a global pandemic, I'm glad they were able to hang in there through it all, and get the car into production anyways.

I have no doubt that companies like Komotec and others will have software upgrades available to change both the engine performance, and transmission shift logic for the auto trans. At least we have cars to modify and upgrade.

This has always been my understanding. Due to emissions requirements Lotus simply built the cars as powerful, loud, and as fast as they could while being able to pass emissions otherwise we would just have the I4.

 

[Lotustoronto]

At launch it was a prototype, not even pre-production. AS ALWAYS in situations like that, numbers are estimates and specifications are subject to change without notice. Final production cars that have passed homologation show numbers very slightly lower than original projected estimates. Not a surprise, and not the end of the world. In fact it shows their original projected estimates were pretty darned close.

This has always been my understanding. Due to emissions requirements Lotus simply built the cars as powerful, loud, and as fast as they could while being able to pass emissions otherwise we would just have the I4.

I dunno, you guys are giving a pass to Lotus on this... @Bilbao-Emira received a V6 auto and the website still stated a 4.2 sec 0-60 time. That is just outright false advertising. Even an Evora 400 (not a GT or GT410) was 4.0 sec auto 0-60. -- 4.6 is a big difference. ( if that is in fact the auto time, I still think 4.2 is auto and 4.6 is manual) I'm not saying it matters to everyone, or even to myself that much, but every performance car manufacturer lists it's 0-60 time for a reason. Don't think I can recall an advertised 0-60 being changed two years after it's announced and customers driving the car around for months.

While @Pegasi I appreciate the positivity, but have the feeling a more powerful V6 variant will be announced either late '24 or most likely sometime in 2025. Meaning they held back on it. Which is pretty much what every reviewer has hinted too.

I really wish I was more positive around here, but it's been pretty hard. I don't even really like much of the additional colours offered either.... wish the white was a true/pure white pearlescent, or another green... alas disappointment for me but maybe different for folks that like the new colour choices. Where's @Leonard when you need him!

 

[Lotus64]

Looks like an error..... unless they snuck in a final drive ratio or calibration change on the auto.

 

[Pegasi]

I dunno, you guys are giving a pass to Lotus on this... @Bilbao-Emira received a V6 auto and the website still stated a 4.2 sec 0-60 time. That is just outright false advertising. Even an Evora 400 (not a GT or GT410) was 4.0 sec auto 0-60. -- 4.6 is a big difference. ( if that is in fact the auto time, I still think 4.2 is auto and 4.6 is manual) I'm not saying it matters to everyone, or even to myself that much, but every performance car manufacturer lists it's 0-60 time for a reason. Don't think I can recall an advertised 0-60 being changed two years after it's announced and customers driving the car around for months.

While @Pegasi I appreciate the positivity, but have the feeling a more powerful V6 variant will be announced either late '24 or most likely sometime in 2025. Meaning they held back on it. Which is pretty much what every reviewer has hinted too.

I really wish I was more positive around here, but it's been pretty hard. I don't even really like much of the additional colours offered either.... wish the white was a true/pure white pearlescent, or another green... alas disappointment for me but maybe different for folks that like the new colour choices. Where's @Leonard when you need him!

I am not trying to be positive. Just trying to be realistic. Here is a screen shot of one of the original publications from Lotus. Notice all the specs with an asterisk. I don't have a legend that shows what the asterisks mean but I took them as estimates. In my mind I assumed Lotus would come in a little under or over these numbers. However as Lotus64 said, maybe it's just an error.

If you leave the Porsche & BMW dealership and run straight to the Lotus dealership you will be disappointed. I have listened to long Lotus fans on this forum and it appears that although Lotus can produce a unique vehicle, the "sales or customer" experience isn't their gusto. I got no issue with that and I got no issue with people who have an issue with that.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I am not trying to be positive. Just trying to be realistic. Here is a screen shot of one of the original publications from Lotus. Notice all the specs with an asterisk. I don't have a legend that shows what the asterisks mean but I took them as estimates. In my mind I assumed Lotus would come in a little under or over these numbers. However as Lotus64 said, maybe it's just an error.

If you leave the Porsche & BMW dealership and run straight to the Lotus dealership you will be disappointed. I have listened to long Lotus fans on this forum and it appears that although Lotus can produce a unique vehicle, the "sales or customer" experience isn't their gusto. I got no issue with that and I got no issue with people who have an issue with that.

I get it. I am not expecting a high level of service. I figured that was not going to happen about 1.5 years ago into this process and I am willing to forego a certain amount to attain something special.

Almost everything Lotus has presented has been in error. From the first launch of the manual handbook (removed for different types of error's), providing review information(smoking tire) or giving car reviewers prototypes (Henry catchpoole still w/ errors, he still has not shared his interior impressions of a final Emira and he's reviewed it three times), my dealer giving wrong info all the time (ok not Lotus' fault), new ECU from error codes coming up on the first cars, error in the wipers programing, error on providing accurate time frames for deliveries... Just seem's like a lot of errors floating around at Lotus. I can't say it's anywhere near normal.

It's a new car launch, I expected the issues to a degree of course. But there has been a lot of missteps that could have been easily avoided.

Just hope getting the Emira isn't an Error.

 

[Tim]

Surely this is an error - has anyone spoken to LCC?

I’m on the fence here - while I don’t really care about the pub “top trumps” I am a bit miffed they change their website after I have transferred them a ton of cash this week.

I also can’t believe it’s really .3 seconds slower in the real world… so either someone make a typo in the web department, or there’s something very odd going on with the emissions testing for the car.

Guess I can ask Scott on Wednesday?!

 

[CDM1855]

Sure this is an error - has anyone spoken to LCC?

I’m on the fence here - while I don’t really care about the pub “top trumps” I am a bit miffed they change their website after I have transferred them a ton of cash this week.

I also can’t believe it’s really .3 seconds slower in the real world… so either someone make a typo in the web department, or there’s something very odd going on with the emissions testing for the car.

Probably grounds for you to take the car, use it for three weeks and then reject it

We’ve all got evidence that they’ve advertised this as having better performance, only three or four days

I’m not particularly happy that at the time I transferee them the money the quoted performance figures were a lot more attractive

I did ask customer care to send me the final specs about 10 days before I paid them, but they ignored me

 

[BeHappy]

There are loads of manual cars run in now can’t believe no one has measured 0-60 times or is it more a case of don’t want to share the reality

 

[CDM1855]

There are loads of manual cars run in now can’t believe no one has measured 0-60 times or is it more a case of don’t want to share the reality

That’s the issue

If the manual is supposed to do 4.2 but people are getting 4.6 or more what are we going to get for the auto 5.2

There are many people on here who would never have ordered the car if they knew that these were the numbers.

With published numbers like this it’s not going to help resale values when people are comparing against a cayman

I would like to think Lotus have been Conservative with the numbers, but evidence doesn’t suggest that so far, unlike porsche, whose numbers tend to be worse performance than reality

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

If the manual is supposed to do 4.2 but people are getting 4.6 or more what are we going to get for the auto 5.2

Don't know exactly, but definitely better than 5.2 for the Auto.
As I said, I don't feel it's half a second slower than Evora 410 Sport Auto.
I still think it's a typo mistake, but we will find out SOON...

 

[CDM1855]

Don't know exactly, but definitely better than 5.2 for the Auto.
As I said, I don't feel it's half a second slower than Evora 410 Sport Auto.
I still think it's a typo mistake, but we will find out SOON...

I hope you’re right

Interestingly, not all of the geographical websites have been updated with this. some are still showing a combined time of 4.2 which should be covering both transmission varients

 

[kbhoz]

Don't know exactly, but definitely better than 5.2 for the Auto.
As I said, I don't feel it's half a second slower than Evora 410 Sport Auto.
I still think it's a typo mistake, but we will find out SOON...

I hope you are right. For an auto to be slower they would have to detune the engine or change transmission ratio (possibly to meet the emission target) - I am leaning that its a typo.

 

[Nova]

I hope you are right. For an auto to be slower they would have to detune the engine or change transmission ratio (possibly to meet the emission target) - I am leaning that its a typo.

I believe this may be the correct answer. They might have tuned the supercharger boost map for the auto to provide fatter torque because that transmission can take it. Later on, they probably ran into emissions issues and had to dial it back to be the same as the manual engine, which resulted in slower performance.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I believe this may be the correct answer. They might have tuned the supercharger boost map for the auto to provide fatter torque because that transmission can take it. Later on, they probably ran into emissions issues and had to dial it back to be the same as the manual engine, which resulted in slower performance.

wow, I was really leaning towards typo... But it does make sense what you are saying regarding emissions etc. If I was speccing an auto, I would certainly feel misguided. It is a significant difference to many. @TomE what is your take on the changed 0-60 time, typo or detune?

 

[Cachaco131]

wow, I was really leaning towards typo... But it does make sense what you are saying regarding emissions etc. If I was speccing an auto, I would certainly feel misguided. It is a significant difference to many. @TomE what is your take on the changed 0-60 time, typo or detune?

Also, how will lotus launch the S and R versions if the base one has to be detuned?

 

[LotusB]

Used to be the norm, no? It wasn't really until Dual/Multi clutch and launch management that autos became faster.

It's not just DCT's, it's also the gearing those fast shifts allow (and in turn additional gears).

The First Edition Emira has emissions regulations to meet the last edition Evora didn't, as a result it's slightly heavier than the last edition Evora, and it doesn't rev quite as high as the last edition Evora. I'm guessing it generates a bit more downforce at speed than the last edition Evora, so why does it not make sense that the first edition Emira loaded with all the options is slightly slower than the last edition Evora that wasn't? That is, presuming your main measure of performance is straight line acceleration. It's not surprising at all that a lighter car with slightly more horsepower and a higher rev limit would be slightly faster.

The reason for the cars' weight has nothing to do with emissions. The Evora GT was already 3.1-3.2k lbs depending on options (lots of carbon fiber options in those as well). Emira is right around that same figure and has way more in terms of creature comforts, electronics, leather, heavy seats, etc.