i4 Emira vs Mercedes Cla 45 0-60mph

[Emira Fan]

Just reading this C&D road test.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33925576/2020-mercedes-amg-cla45-4matic-by-the-numbers/]

[our 3743-pound test car posted roughly the same performance results of the last CLA45 we tested: a launch-control-enabled 3.7-second 60-mph time, ]

The 2020 CLA45 is boosted to 30.1 psi and puts out 382 hp - 350 lb-ft with the new 8 speed DTC. Wondering if the early i4 Emiras had an issue with the DCT that limited its performance or couldn't engage LC (when auto mags reviewed in 2023 and reported 4.5s 0-60).

CLA is almost 600 heavy with only 22 more hp. The Power to weight ratio is much more favorable on the Emira. Yes, the CLA has AWD; however, the heavily rear biassed weight distribution and turbo tag should keep the Emria from its spinning wheels. Aside the CLAs AWD probably adds efficiency loss and has more cross sectional area, more overall drag.
Wouldn't you expect the 360 hp Emria to atleast be on par with the CLAs 0-60, what I'm I missing?
How is it the Emira that far off from CLA?
Does anyone with an i4 Emira have a Draggy performance meeter to run a test?

 

[TurboTambo]

Just reading this C&D road test.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33925576/2020-mercedes-amg-cla45-4matic-by-the-numbers/]

[our 3743-pound test car posted roughly the same performance results of the last CLA45 we tested: a launch-control-enabled 3.7-second 60-mph time, ]

The 2020 CLA45 is boosted to 30.1 psi and puts out 382 hp - 350 lb-ft with the new 8 speed DTC. Wondering if the early i4 Emiras had an issue with the DCT that limited its performance or couldn't engage LC (when auto mags reviewed in 2023 and reported 4.5s 0-60).

CLA is almost 600 heavy with only 22 more hp. The Power to weight ratio is much more favorable on the Emira. Yes, the CLA has AWD; however, the heavily rear biassed weight distribution and turbo tag should keep the Emria from its spinning wheels. Aside the CLAs AWD probably adds efficiency loss and has more cross sectional area, more overall drag.
Wouldn't you expect the 360 hp Emria to atleast be on par with the CLAs 0-60, what I'm I missing?
How is it the Emira that far off from CLA?
Does anyone with an i4 Emira have a Draggy performance meeter to run a test?

Interesting post. Once I have run my i4 in I'll be seeing what it can do. I still reckon with a decent launch in Track mode we maybe able to crack the 4 secs. I wouldn't worry about the car mag tests. There's no way of knowing what mode they were using, how they were driving the car or the state of the tune (as it was probably a unfinished test car).

 

[lynchy73]

I got circa 4s with my China supplied I4 Emira. I posted up videos previously and this image using fast r iPhone app.

 

[Speedy Emira]

Just reading this C&D road test.
[https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33925576/2020-mercedes-amg-cla45-4matic-by-the-numbers/]

[our 3743-pound test car posted roughly the same performance results of the last CLA45 we tested: a launch-control-enabled 3.7-second 60-mph time, ]

The 2020 CLA45 is boosted to 30.1 psi and puts out 382 hp - 350 lb-ft with the new 8 speed DTC. Wondering if the early i4 Emiras had an issue with the DCT that limited its performance or couldn't engage LC (when auto mags reviewed in 2023 and reported 4.5s 0-60).

CLA is almost 600 heavy with only 22 more hp. The Power to weight ratio is much more favorable on the Emira. Yes, the CLA has AWD; however, the heavily rear biassed weight distribution and turbo tag should keep the Emria from its spinning wheels. Aside the CLAs AWD probably adds efficiency loss and has more cross sectional area, more overall drag.
Wouldn't you expect the 360 hp Emria to atleast be on par with the CLAs 0-60, what I'm I missing?
How is it the Emira that far off from CLA?
Does anyone with an i4 Emira have a Draggy performance meeter to run a test?

Emira Fan you have hit the nail on the head mentioning the AWD which for sure is the reason it has a better 0-60. I looked at the review by Car and Driver the other day on the new RS3 and it does 3.6 with 400hp and weighing more. I truly believe 0-60 isn't where these cars are and the i4 isn't an AMG A45 with a different body.
I drove my V6 on the weekend in the dry with warmed-up tyres, and it handled like a dream around bends. My passenger stated his M2 had no hope of doing the same and my previous RS3 was only better in the wet. It's a compromise I am happy with.

Being mid-engine cars there are going to be compromises and one big one is the power. The i4 struggles to keep the heat down with the turbo and I cannot imagine it going well if owners are mapping to 450-500hp, especially when the A45 gets heat issues at the latter end. The V6 can easily get to 550hp without heat issues but again will have the power but can't do a launch being manual. I enquired previously about the auto in the V6 and was told it can't handle that power.
The only way around this so far is a JUBU 600hp conversion with the Audi DCT (DQ500) they offer and additional cooling. That will provide launch (probably close to 3 sec 0-60) and a reliable built engine set-up.
It would be a real supercar but would no longer be manual and would cost around £75k. I would love to see someone do this. 😎

 

[Andy H]

Has anyone actually dynoed an i4 yet? It would be interesting to see if the 360 vs 400bhp difference really plays out on the rollers. I also have the latest edition RS3 which has around 400bhp so I will be able to do a subjective driver's test once I'm finally run in. The RS3 will be quicker off the line for sure but from a dry rolling start I suspect there won't be much in it.

 

[lynchy73]

Has anyone actually dynoed an i4 yet? It would be interesting to see if the 360 vs 400bhp difference really plays out on the rollers. I also have the latest edition RS3 which has around 400bhp so I will be able to do a subjective driver's test once I'm finally run in. The RS3 will be quicker off the line for sure but from a dry rolling start I suspect there won't be much in it.

There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode. I’d be surprised if 4wd would offer a significant reduction in acceleration times at this power level, considering the emira is mid engine with over 60% of the weight over the rear wheels (as I remember).

 

[Andy H]

There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode

Yes, I agree - in optimal conditions there may not be much difference although the RS3 makes ~3.5secs 0-60. The rear tyres are very wide on the Emira too which should help.

 

[Speedy Emira]

There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode. I’d be surprised if 4wd would offer a significant reduction in acceleration times at this power level, considering the emira is mid engine with over 60% of the weight over the rear wheels (as I remember).

My last RS3 8V was running 740hp and I only had wheelspin issues when running the extreme launch map if I didn't have warm tyres, and the ideal road surface. Going from the 685hp map to the 740hp didn't make any difference 0-60 until I did further suspension and diff mods. This showed that on launch the extra 55hp was probably wasn't used and without it being obvious through. wheelspin.

The Emira has 295 rears
The new RS3 has 245 rears and 265 fronts
The RS3 has the same hp and is both heavier and worse areodynamic efficiency than an Emira so if AWD was not a factor surely it would be slower.

As much as AWD will help acceleration low down it isn't as helpful higher up and if you did a 100-150mph an Emira may win. Personally I would love an AWD version of an Emira.

I found this on a search:

Scenario: -A Rear wheel drive car; 1996 M3 @210whp, against an AWD 60/40 transfer case ratio 2004 STi @220ish AWHP. -0-100mph race the STi wins (AWD duh) -if started at 100-150mph the M3 wins (RWD duh) -Drag coefficient of the STi is .29, M3 is .32 (advantage STi) -Final Drive gearing is near the same

Reference: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/efficiency-of-rwd-vs-awd-at-high-speed.222478/

 

[Lotus64]

Turbo lag isn't a factor in 0-60 times due to the turbo being pre-spooled from brake torquing and/or launch control. With 4 wheel traction, the CLA 45 amg can apply much more power to the ground at launch than the Emira, resulting in the clear advantage.

Without the aggressive launch, when turbo lag is apparent, the CLAs 5-60 time drops to 5.1s (more indicative of real world performance), which the I4 emira should handily beat due to the better power to weight ratio.

It all comes down to the AWD system.

 

[seriously]

Turbo lag isn't a factor in 0-60 times due to the turbo being pre-spooled from brake torquing and/or launch control. With 4 wheel traction, the CLA 45 amg can apply much more power to the ground at launch than the Emira, resulting in the clear advantage.

Without the aggressive launch, when turbo lag is apparent, the CLAs 5-60 time drops to 5.1s (more indicative of real world performance), which the I4 emira should handily beat due to the better power to weight ratio.

It all comes down to the AWD system.

This makes sense to me. 4WD is kind of a cheat code even with the weight penalty.

 

[Emira Fan]

There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode. I’d be surprised if 4wd would offer a significant reduction in acceleration times at this power level, considering the emira is mid engine with over 60% of the weight over the rear wheels (as I remember).

[There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode. ]

Yes, AWD wouldn't make a difference in the Emira if this is the case.
Something is going on....
Waiting for someone to run the i4 with a Draggy meter using LC. I'm really expecting sub 4 seconds to 60. Or there is something wrong .... I did read the i4 doesn't have a limited slip diff .
Lynchy73 do you have an i4 already and are past the 1,000 mile mark ? So you're saying you've made a run with LC and the tires don't spin?? thanks

 

[SirSoysauce]

[There is little or no wheel spin off the line when using launch mode. ]

Yes, AWD wouldn't make a difference in the Emira if this is the case.
Something is going on....
Waiting for someone to run the i4 with a Draggy meter using LC. I'm really expecting sub 4 seconds to 60. Or there is something wrong .... I did read the i4 doesn't have a limited slip diff .
Lynchy73 do you have an i4 already and are past the 1,000 mile mark ? So you're saying you've made a run with LC and the tires don't spin?? thanks

Boy I really want a V6 manual Emira, but if 0-60 is 3.9, that's very tempting.

 

[ADC]

Boy I really want a V6 manual Emira, but if 0-60 is 3.9, that's very tempting.

I can scarcely believe that I'm going to be That Guy ™️ in this thread, but the Emira (especially in V6 manual form) is Probably Not The Car You Are Looking For if fractional gains in 0-60 keep you up at night... it just isn't anywhere near the point of this car.

 

[SirSoysauce]

I can scarcely believe that I'm going to be That Guy ™️ in this thread, but the Emira (especially in V6 manual form) is Probably Not The Car You Are Looking For if fractional gains in 0-60 keep you up at night... it just isn't anywhere near the point of this car.

Put simply, this isn't the driving factor on whether I prefer the AMG vs the Toyota V6, really when enthralls me about the AMG engine is that its truly an exotic engine fit for making this a more exotic package of a car. I'm still split 75/25 on V6 Manual vs AMG since I rather think its more fun package, but there's a lot of appeal for a handmade engine (minus the cost of repair).

In the ideal world having both would be kind of nice 😁

 

[ADC]

Put simply, this isn't the driving factor on whether I prefer the AMG vs the Toyota V6, really when enthralls me about the AMG engine is that its truly an exotic engine fit for making this a more exotic package of a car. I'm still split 75/25 on V6 Manual vs AMG since I rather think its more fun package, but there's a lot of appeal for a handmade engine (minus the cost of repair).

In the ideal world having both would be kind of nice 😁

Fair enough. For what it's worth, when I put my deposit down in 2021 (lobsob!) I was 100% in camp AMG, for pretty much the reason you state. When my situation changed (years later, second lolsob), and I no longer needed to do a daily commute in the car, my heart overruled my head (or was it the other way around... I can't be sure), and I swapped to the V6 manual for the theatre and noise (and expected maintenance costs!)

Not intending to piss on anyone else's i4-cornflakes, but the two flavours of drivetrain are quite different, and I'm probably glad my hand was forced by all the crazy delays to re-evaluate what I really wanted in this car long term. The i4 is definitely the winner of point-and-squirt accessibility, and likely faster on track, but I ended up just thinking I'd prefer the V6-manual experience for a car I intend to keep basically forever. I'll probably participate in a traffic light grand prix on occasion, but have accepted that many electric SUVs have that covered, so, for me, the shine has kind of gone from playing the 0-60 game...

All that said, as long as everyone is having fun, then have at it

 

[SirSoysauce]

Fair enough. For what it's worth, when I put my deposit down in 2021 (lobsob!) I was 100% in camp AMG, for pretty much the reason you state. When my situation changed (years later, second lolsob), and I no longer needed to do a daily commute in the car, my heart overruled my head, and I swapped to the V6 manual for the theatre and noise (and expected maintenance costs!)

Not intending to piss on anyone else's i4-cornflakes, but the two flavours of drivetrain are quite different, and I'm probably glad my hand was forced by all the crazy delays to re-evaluate what I really wanted in this car long term. The i4 is definitely the winner of point-and-squirt accessibility, and likely faster on track, but I ended up just thinking I'd prefer the V6-manual experience for a car I intend to keep basically forever. I'll probably participate in a traffic light grand prix on occasion, but have accepted that many electric SUVs have that covered, so, for me, the shine has kind of gone from playing the 0-60 game...

All that said, as long as everyone is having fun, then have at it

The exhaust note/intake noises definitely feel very underwhelming in the AMG setup. I'd even argue that the need to have a plain plastic engine cover vs seeing the supercharger proudly displayed is also a huge disappointment.

All that aside though, it does look like we're both in the same boat for why we prefer the V6 manual. Hopefully more data and information comes in on maintenance cost and maybe some mods that may help make the i4 more exciting, but time will tell

 

[Speedy Emira]

The exhaust note/intake noises definitely feel very underwhelming in the AMG setup. I'd even argue that the need to have a plain plastic engine cover vs seeing the supercharger proudly displayed is also a huge disappointment.

All that aside though, it does look like we're both in the same boat for why we prefer the V6 manual. Hopefully more data and information comes in on maintenance cost and maybe some mods that may help make the i4 more exciting, but time will tell

Maybe the JUBU 460hp upgrade on a V6 manual which doesn’t require a built engine and has a 7200 soft rev limiter and optional rev matching?
I fitted the Miltek system with the third cat delete and it’s a different game altogether.

 

[TurboTambo]

The exhaust note/intake noises definitely feel very underwhelming in the AMG setup. I'd even argue that the need to have a plain plastic engine cover vs seeing the supercharger proudly displayed is also a huge disappointment.

All that aside though, it does look like we're both in the same boat for why we prefer the V6 manual. Hopefully more data and information comes in on maintenance cost and maybe some mods that may help make the i4 more exciting, but time will tell

Have you driven the i4? You need to be in an actual i4 in Sport or Track mode before saying the noise level is underwhelming. I haven't even run my i4 in yet, but at lower revs in Sports mode it sounds like a beast. It has a really deep roar, and with all the turbo noises going on, it makes for a crazy in car performance. I haven't even bothered setting up or listening to the stereo yet.

 

[TurboTambo]

Emira Fan you have hit the nail on the head mentioning the AWD which for sure is the reason it has a better 0-60. I looked at the review by Car and Driver the other day on the new RS3 and it does 3.6 with 400hp and weighing more. I truly believe 0-60 isn't where these cars are and the i4 isn't an AMG A45 with a different body.
I drove my V6 on the weekend in the dry with warmed-up tyres, and it handled like a dream around bends. My passenger stated his M2 had no hope of doing the same and my previous RS3 was only better in the wet. It's a compromise I am happy with.

Being mid-engine cars there are going to be compromises and one big one is the power. The i4 struggles to keep the heat down with the turbo and I cannot imagine it going well if owners are mapping to 450-500hp, especially when the A45 gets heat issues at the latter end. The V6 can easily get to 550hp without heat issues but again will have the power but can't do a launch being manual. I enquired previously about the auto in the V6 and was told it can't handle that power.
The only way around this so far is a JUBU 600hp conversion with the Audi DCT (DQ500) they offer and additional cooling. That will provide launch (probably close to 3 sec 0-60) and a reliable built engine set-up.
It would be a real supercar but would no longer be manual and would cost around £75k. I would love to see someone do this. 😎

I don't think the turbo heat issue will be a massive problem. Give it a few months there will be lots of mod around to keep this temperature down, especially on a road car. A 500hp i4 would be insane, and reliable as a road car. Watch this space!

 

[VL3X]

I don't think the turbo heat issue will be a massive problem. Give it a few months there will be lots of mod around to keep this temperature down, especially on a road car. A 500hp i4 would be insane, and reliable as a road car. Watch this space!

I think everyone is banking on this (being able to tune the i4 for big power). That's the draw for the i4. Some will be willing to sacrifice a pedal and justify paying $80-100k for a 4 cylinder Emira because there's big potential.

That being said, I do think heat management will be an issue. The i4 release was delayed for quite some time, presumably due to Lotus trying to figure out how to properly manage the heat from that giant snail in their mid-engine setup.