VF Tuner - i4 ECU tuning interest thread

[F1 SML8R]

Please elaborate on what weird shit I need to worry about because I’m about to buy the JB4? And later add headers and y-pipes?

I'd suggest you post on the JB4 thread and ask for people's i4 specific side effects when you push the tuning to the point where the CPC scales it back.

 

[Tracked Emira]

I'd suggest you post on the JB4 thread and ask for people's i4 specific side effects when you push the tuning to the point where the CPC scales it back.

I have the auto V6. Are there any issues with the JB4 like the turbo?

 

[docron]

I'd suggest you post on the JB4 thread and ask for people's i4 specific side effects when you push the tuning to the point where the CPC scales it back.

I just experienced the torque limiter of the CPC in @Kaz ’s car a couple hours ago up on AC.

 

[Nelumbo nucifera]

I just experienced the torque limiter of the CPC in @Kaz ’s car a couple hours ago up on AC.

I have installed the JB4 to my 2.0 AMG and like others, experiencing no problems at all. The increase from the stock 360 HP model (which mine is) has enabled me to match the stock output of the Merc AMG 45s (421 hp). Torque is up 34 NM. Both these figures are within the original manufacturers limits imposed by AMG when producing those units.
If you plan on making other power enhancements, logically no matter what electronic tricks you install (JB4 or ECU reflash) you’re going to be faced with OEM parts either failing or requiring an upgrade. Same applies to the Toymota V6.
It’s certainly not a failing of the JB4 or ECU re-tune. It’s because we are expecting the little 1900cc engine to push out more power than it was designed (stock) to do.
There is a limit that needs to be accepted.

 

[TurboTambo]

At what point in power or torque does the CPC start scaling back? How far can we take it until these problems occur.

 

[Kaz]

At what point in power or torque does the CPC start scaling back? How far can we take it until these problems occur.

Around 440ish seems to be it, though I think it's really gears 4 and up I don't feel anything funny 1-3, and Inokinetics tuner wanted to detune the torque curve in the higher gears but I'm going to wait till the CPC is all taken care of

 

[Kaz]

I have installed the JB4 to my 2.0 AMG and like others, experiencing no problems at all. The increase from the stock 360 HP model (which mine is) has enabled me to match the stock output of the Merc AMG 45s (421 hp). Torque is up 34 NM. Both these figures are within the original manufacturers limits imposed by AMG when producing those units.
If you plan on making other power enhancements, logically no matter what electronic tricks you install (JB4 or ECU reflash) you’re going to be faced with OEM parts either failing or requiring an upgrade. Same applies to the Toymota V6.
It’s certainly not a failing of the JB4 or ECU re-tune. It’s because we are expecting the little 1900cc engine to push out more power than it was designed (stock) to do.
There is a limit that needs to be accepted.

Kind of? There's so many AMGs with our drivetrain very healthy and running 500+ , things won't automatically break, sure upgrading parts is always smart but I don't expect to cryo my gears and upgrade everything - the car will be very happy running a high hp tune with the stock drivetrain -

 

[TurboTambo]

Around 440ish seems to be it, though I think it's really gears 4 and up I don't feel anything funny 1-3, and Inokinetics tuner wanted to detune the torque curve in the higher gears but I'm going to wait till the CPC is all taken care of

This shouldn't be issue for me with the JB4 then. I could even go water/meth injection and shoot for higher end and still not hit that power on the 365hp variant. All good. Thanks.

 

[Nelumbo nucifera]

Kind of? There's so many AMGs with our drivetrain very healthy and running 500+ , things won't automatically break, sure upgrading parts is always smart but I don't expect to cryo my gears and upgrade everything - the car will be very happy running a high hp tune with the stock drivetrain -

Uh huh.

 

[F1 SML8R]

Kind of? There's so many AMGs with our drivetrain very healthy and running 500+ , things won't automatically break, sure upgrading parts is always smart but I don't expect to cryo my gears and upgrade everything - the car will be very happy running a high hp tune with the stock drivetrain -

To further elaborate and support Kaz's point, Mercedes AMG themselves already have a standard version of the M139 that runs this identical ICE only set-up (Not the hybrid version that runs at an even higher level) at 470 hp. You also have the Bathurst Edition Emira in Australia that runs 500HP from the factory. So yeah, there's really no need to consider any updates in actual hardware up to and or around 500hp.

The key element though? The tuning must be appropriate (i.e., with safety checks, etc.). People have to know, most tuned cars don't grenade because they ran too much hp, they grenade because at some point some safety threshold (from the factory tune) gets bypassed that triggers the blow-up.

 

[Nelumbo nucifera]

To further elaborate and support Kaz's point, Mercedes AMG themselves already have a standard version of the M139 that runs this identical ICE only set-up (Not the hybrid version that runs at an even higher level) at 470 hp. You also have the Bathurst Edition Emira in Australia that runs 500HP from the factory. So yeah, there's really no need to consider any updates in actual hardware up to and or around 500hp.

The key element though? The tuning must be appropriate (i.e., with safety checks, etc.). People have to know, most tuned cars don't grenade because they ran too much hp, they grenade because at some point some safety threshold (from the factory tune) gets bypassed that triggers the blow-up.

“they grenade because at some point some safety threshold (from the factory tune) gets bypassed that triggers the blow-up.”

Thank you F1 SML8R for your like minded thinking. I rest my case.

 

[TurboTambo]

To further elaborate and support Kaz's point, Mercedes AMG themselves already have a standard version of the M139 that runs this identical ICE only set-up (Not the hybrid version that runs at an even higher level) at 470 hp. You also have the Bathurst Edition Emira in Australia that runs 500HP from the factory. So yeah, there's really no need to consider any updates in actual hardware up to and or around 500hp.

The key element though? The tuning must be appropriate (i.e., with safety checks, etc.). People have to know, most tuned cars don't grenade because they ran too much hp, they grenade because at some point some safety threshold (from the factory tune) gets bypassed that triggers the blow-up.

I'd love to see what the standard engine can handle. I would bet it's close to 600Hp or more.... maybe not the gearbox. Poor tuning it what usually causes a 'blow up'. This isn't an engine issue, it's a starving the engine of its requirements issue.

 

[Kaz]

I'd love to see what the standard engine can handle. I would bet it's close to 600Hp or more.... maybe not the gearbox. Poor tuning it what usually causes a 'blow up'. This isn't an engine issue, it's a starving the engine of its requirements issue.

Yeah all the research I have done it's basically you run out of fuel past 500+ so injectors, fuel pump, etc. first. Then the turbo gets inefficient so hybrid turbo. Then re-torque the curves for the transmission so it doesn't get hot with massive torque and low rpm's. The rest is just tuning 101 and making sure it has enough fuel and doesn't lean out. But structurally they seem to be very strong and are mostly software limited in stock config. Sure many of us will know soon enough! I've got few hybrid turbo links saved for when the time comes lol

 

[675430VME]

Actually for Boomgear's tune, I only have cpc problem when the tranny is very hot, like on track or if I run super fast on mountain pass for more than half an hour. I have never experienced it for street driving, even when I drive very aggressive.

 

[docron]

Actually for Boomgear's tune, I only have cpc problem when the tranny is very hot, like on track or if I run super fast on mountain pass for more than half an hour. I have never experienced it for street driving, even when I drive very aggressive.

Did Ryan detune the torque at 5000-7000rpm so power wouldnt get limited by the CPC at that part of the bandwidth?

 

[675430VME]

From the dyno it doesn't look that way and when I asked, he said there is a small margin to cheat over the cpc. Of course he won't go into details but I think I remember he said something about "load", not sure...

JB4 vs Stage 1+

 

[Slci4]

Yeah all the research I have done it's basically you run out of fuel past 500+ so injectors, fuel pump, etc. first. Then the turbo gets inefficient so hybrid turbo. Then re-torque the curves for the transmission so it doesn't get hot with massive torque and low rpm's. The rest is just tuning 101 and making sure it has enough fuel and doesn't lean out. But structurally they seem to be very strong and are mostly software limited in stock config. Sure many of us will know soon enough! I've got few hybrid turbo links saved for when the time comes lol

Hopefully just LPFP/Port Injection, which I would assume would be the case.

 

[dbjames]

I spoke to EST who are one of the top Mercedes tuners in the UK. They said they have hit a dead end as they can't surpass the CPC limits - it's working in a completely different was to the Merc AMG cars they say...no one thinks a piggyback is ideal for these heavily boosted, thermally limited engines where you want the ECU, CPC and DCT all working in harmony which just isn't going to happen with a tuning box. In theory, both the 360hp and 400hps should be stage 1 tuned to the same power levels, but the 400hp cars getting more power. I think this is symptomatic of tuners not having cracked the cpc which is presumably more restrictive on the 360 cars

 

[VF Tuner]

We will be working on this with hopes of release this summer:
1. ECU Unlocking
2. ECU + TCU Tuning
3. CPC Tuning.
ECUs will have to be mailed for unlocking, or cloned.

 

[Tracked Emira]

We will be working on this with hopes of release this summer:
1. ECU Unlocking
2. ECU + TCU Tuning
3. CPC Tuning.
ECUs will have to be mailed for unlocking, or cloned.

Are also working on the V6 automatic or has the TCU defeated you like a chastity belt?