Hawk Pads are Best Upgrade Ever

[kitkat]

This discussion remains academic. Hawk Performance Ceramic front brake pads are NOT not available for the Emira. That's been the case at least since I purchased my car 6 months ago, and I'm told much longer than that.

Well it’s not academic for those of us who have been using a set , eventually they’ll make a new batch, but I’d be looking at alternatives at this point. I’d be curious about the Project Mu Type PS, but that might be a 2 month wait from Japan.

 

[Foosh]

Of course not, but it is academic for who are interested in getting a set, which the poster you responded to is.

In April I was told it would be a month or so wait. That was 6 months ago, and some have told me they've been waiting for a year. Thus, I went with a set of EBC Reds, which are great in street use.

I suspect that folks new to this thread don't realize how old it is, started back when the Hawk Performance Ceramic pads for Emira were readily available.

Your points on the Hawk PCs not being suitable for track is on target. The same is true of the EBC Reds, which they both readily acknowledge. They are fantastic street-only pads.

 

[V6 6MT]

Of course not, but it is academic for who are interested in getting a set, which the poster you responded to is.

In April I was told it would be a month or so wait. That was 6 months ago, and some have told me they've been waiting for a year.

Thus, I went with a set of EBC Reds, which are great in street use.

I've purchased the Hawk rears and have been waiting for the fronts for as long as you. I'm just about to give up and order EBC reds.

 

[Nelumbo nucifera]

Thank you all, for your contributions. Has anyone tried the EBC Brakes Bluestuff Street and Track Day Brake Pads?
Yellow Stuff from EBC have lost their recommendation for even occasional track days, it would seem.
Any comments or experience with the Bluestuff units?

 

[Foosh]

Thank you all, for your contributions. Has anyone tried the EBC Brakes Bluestuff Street and Track Day Brake Pads?
Yellow Stuff from EBC have lost their recommendation for even occasional track days, it would seem.
Any comments or experience with the Bluestuff units?

Do you want low dust or not? None of the pads you mentioned above meet that requirement. If that's not a priority, you might as well keep your OEM pads, which are OK for very occasional track use with short stints.

 

[Nelumbo nucifera]

Do you want low dust or not? None of the pads you mentioned above meet that requirement. If that's not a priority, you might as well keep your OEM pads, which are OK for very occasional track use with short stints.

Thanks so much for responding. Anything better than the dust from the OEM pads would be a bonus. How do EBC Bluestuff compare?
Are Bluestuff pads a better quality for stopping power, break fade, noise, dust, rotor wear, and longevity compared to OEM?
I’ve just done 8500 km on the OEM in two years Including probably 8 track days (40 hours total) and the OEM pads need renewing.

 

[Foosh]

Thanks so much for responding. Anything better than the dust from the OEM pads would be a bonus. How do EBC Bluestuff compare?
Are Bluestuff pads a better quality for stopping power, break fade, noise, dust, rotor wear, and longevity compared to OEM?
I’ve just done 8500 km on the OEM in two years Including probably 8 track days (40 hours total) and the OEM pads need renewing.

Your question has been answered several times now, but any pads for steel brakes not branded as "ceramic" are going to be as dusty as the OEM pads you now have. By nature, if a pad is rated for occasional track use, it's going to dust much like the OEM pad. Dusting is necessary to shed the heat produced by repeated heavy braking, which makes them more resistant to brake fade.

The ONLY ceramic pads for steel brakes known to fit the Emira are EBC Reds, and Hawk Performance Ceramics. Both companies specifically state they are NOT suitable for occasional track use. Both have other pads that are track suitable (they are not ceramic compounds), and they produce a lot of dust.

The exception to the above are true carbon ceramic pads and rotors (not steel brakes), which are great for track and street, they don't fade because they never get as hot as steel rotors, and they produce almost no dust. However, most track rats don't use them because of their high cost. Replacing a set of carbon ceramic rotors and pads is $20K-35K, and I'm not aware any availability for the Emira.

Carbon ceramic brakes are generally only found on high-end "supercars" given their high cost.

 

[GrahamClark_60-68]

Hawk Performance Ceramic, the ones mostly discussed in this thread.

For the street the Hawk PC are fine, so the real comparison is if you were to put them on track or an environment where repeated hard brake zones were to happen. The PC just aren’t up to it at all, the stock pads could handle a few hot laps but they disintegrate quickly and you risk overheating them and smearing pad material on your rotors. The PC won’t even last a lap.

I use PC on regular street driving, project mu hc+ for canyon driving, and pagid rsl29 for track.

And before anyone gets any funny ideas, no the HC+ are not good daily low dust pads, they’re like oem with more thermal capacity.

@kitkat Thanks again for your assessment of OEM vs. Hawk PC vs project mu hc+ vs pagid rsI29 for street/canyon/track. For completeness sake (at least in my selfish interests of street and canyon driving only), would you add EBC Reds to this mix? Interested to hear your impressions on how they stack up in your opinion specifically in fade for street and canyon (since we already know their improvement in dust/grabbiness over stock). Thanks.

 

[Foosh]

He did mention above that in his style of canyon driving, he noticed fade with the EBC Reds. It's hard to judge from forum posts how aggressively brakes are being used. Driver styles and risk tolerance vary greatly.

 

[kitkat]

@kitkat Thanks again for your assessment of OEM vs. Hawk PC vs project mu hc+ vs pagid rsI29 for street/canyon/track. For completeness sake (at least in my selfish interests of street and canyon driving only), would you add EBC Reds to this mix? Interested to hear your impressions on how they stack up in your opinion specifically in fade for street and canyon (since we already know their improvement in dust/grabbiness over stock). Thanks.

I very early on had EBC Red, I would stack them up similarly to the Hawk PC, they seemed to fade just as quickly on street. I've had a couple of scary moments in the canyons with the EBC Red. I think the EBC Red has a touch less brake dust, but more noise. I think the EBC Reds also have a better initial bite than the Hawk PC.

I've also had some issues with the EBC Red from two other perspectives:

- The pad has a slight overhang on the outboard rotor side, this causes a ledge to form with wear and I think it causes noise in certain scenarios. I've been told that the ledge eventually gets knocked off but I didn't keep them long enough to find that out. I'm not sure if they've fixed this since, but I know of a member who has contacted EBC about this and they don't seem to care.

- Additionally, the pads backing causes some issues for inserting the pads when brand new. Less of an issue after running them in for a while and taking off the backing plates. I don't run into this issue with any other pad.

For that I'd prefer the Hawk PC for a purely street daily pad.

 

[GrahamClark_60-68]

I very early on had EBC Red, I would stack them up similarly to the Hawk PC, they seemed to fade just as quickly on street. I've had a couple of scary moments in the canyons with the EBC Red. I think the EBC Red has a touch less brake dust, but more noise. I think the EBC Reds also have a better initial bite than the Hawk PC.

I've also had some issues with the EBC Red from two other perspectives:

- The pad has a slight overhang on the outboard rotor side, this causes a ledge to form with wear and I think it causes noise in certain scenarios. I've been told that the ledge eventually gets knocked off but I didn't keep them long enough to find that out. I'm not sure if they've fixed this since, but I know of a member who has contacted EBC about this and they don't seem to care.

- Additionally, the pads backing causes some issues for inserting the pads when brand new. Less of an issue after running them in for a while and taking off the backing plates. I don't run into this issue with any other pad.

For that I'd prefer the Hawk PC for a purely street daily pad.

Thanks! So with ALL of that said, it's sounding like you feel the OEM pads are at least slighly better in terms of fade resistance in street/canyon driving than the EBC Reds, with of course the dust/grabbiness issue (which I'm now pretty used to). Would that be a correct assessment? Because with the type and amount of driving I do, I'm now leaning towards just wearing out the OEM pads before I decide what's next.

 

[kitkat]

Thanks! So with ALL of that said, it's sounding like you feel the OEM pads are at least slighly better in terms of fade resistance in street/canyon driving than the EBC Reds, with of course the dust/grabbiness issue (which I'm now pretty used to). Would that be a correct assessment? Because with the type and amount of driving I do, I'm now leaning towards just wearing out the OEM pads before I decide what's next.

Yup, the oem pads are decent for this. Their only real flaws are dust and wear rate when operating outside of their optimal temperature zone.

 

[1stEmiraNow2Clarks]

My new Wheels with gray versus black may hide my OEM dust better.. at least I can hope they will.

 

[Foosh]

Unfortunately, they won't. I've had all colors on dozens of sports cars with dusty brakes, and black wheels are the best at hiding dust, but it still doesn't look good. However, lighter colored wheels look much worse coated with brake dust, which is black.

 

[Foosh]

I very early on had EBC Red, I would stack them up similarly to the Hawk PC, they seemed to fade just as quickly on street. I've had a couple of scary moments in the canyons with the EBC Red. I think the EBC Red has a touch less brake dust, but more noise. I think the EBC Reds also have a better initial bite than the Hawk PC.

I've also had some issues with the EBC Red from two other perspectives:

- The pad has a slight overhang on the outboard rotor side, this causes a ledge to form with wear and I think it causes noise in certain scenarios. I've been told that the ledge eventually gets knocked off but I didn't keep them long enough to find that out. I'm not sure if they've fixed this since, but I know of a member who has contacted EBC about this and they don't seem to care.

- Additionally, the pads backing causes some issues for inserting the pads when brand new. Less of an issue after running them in for a while and taking off the backing plates. I don't run into this issue with any other pad.

For that I'd prefer the Hawk PC for a purely street daily pad.

You're obviously doing a lot more aggressive braking than I do. I do drive spirited on lightly-traveled twisty, rural roads, but I don't do much hard braking like I did on race tracks when I was chasing better lap times. I'm not braking from triple digits on the street either because that means jail time.

I've had no hint of fade on the EBC Reds.