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Is it futile to compare the Emira with Porsche 718/Boxter/Caymen

roundincircles

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Many of the reviews compare the Emira driving experience against the Porsche 718 GTS and that's OK, I guess. But there is a BUT.

The 718 model line has been fleshed out to 4 models, 4 cyl entry model, 4 litre GTS, 4 litre GT4 and 4 litre GT4RS. Each model has a different suspension ( components and set up), each engine has different induction/breathing and maps, plus brakes and tyres..........so they become targetted at niche segments.

The Emira will arrive with many derivatives and iterations BUT at this time it's being compared with finely honed niche derivatives and thus has a hard job.

There are many reviews lauding the Emiras road-going dynamics and special 'Lotus character'. Its styling and quality upgrade also.

The fact that it retains 'Lotus DNA is a relief. Porsche has its DNA and long may that last.

So, at the risk of being defensive, I thought some perspective would help.
 

xen

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I think you're making excuses for a car that doesn't need any. It's clearly a GTS competitor and priced as such.

A product can be different without being better or worse, pick your priorities and pick your car. Provided you're secure in your convictions you won't be disappointed either way.
 
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roundincircles

roundincircles

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I think you're making excuses for a car that doesn't need any. It's clearly a GTS competitor and priced as such.

A product can be different without being better or worse, pick your priorities and pick your car. Provided you're secure in your convictions you won't be disappointed either way.
Fair comment.
 

emiraspain

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As i just said on another thread, to me it seems its very very close to the GTS, but yes, its far far from the GT4, but as you said, Lotus will later bring out a more track ready car, with 430/40/50 even HP that will perhaps compete with the GT4. Harder & stiffer suspension, which may be too stiff and none modifiable... and I estimate it WONT beat the GT4 either, but will be close, very close and for me, based on the overall package, where for a track car the luggage side doesnt come into it, I think it will overall be the car you would take home. I.e. better looks, way better... better interior in my eyes, although some seem to like the 8 year old porsche interior, for me a bit dated and better steering feel. The gear change will let it down a bit, but I dont think it can be that bad as I personally dont think the porsches is so good..... all relative I guess.
I think this is the calm after the storm and we try to justify things to ourselves in our own ways. I trust lotus, I am happy to take the 1st car without a test drive... I dont think I will ever get to a point where I say, yes, Evo was correct and I have sport on goodyears haha.... as I wont ever drive it like he did and I will always try to give the benefit of the doubt.
I again say, is it such a let down to be inches away from a cayman overall, but to look miles better??? These guys are not kids, they have been around the block and have more people working on their GT cars alone that Lotus have on all their whole lineup.
I understand the feeling of why dial down the engine from the evora, but surely this is to dial it back up again for the GT4 type car later..or else what do they do next. We dont know if AMG will give them permission to get as much or more power out of the 4 cyl than they do themselves..... we shall see.

If Lotus dont correct a few of the small downsides, 99% there will be a lichfield or whoever company doing some small mods for a "small" price to fix it. No, we should not have to pay that, correct, but then dont buy the general public car and wait the performance version..... I think only trackers and 0.125 sec, people can feel upset and maybe cancel now... the rest of us are okay, but perhaps hope for something to come out of Lotus.. .maybe another Harry interview with gavin when he collects his car! Lotus need to be smart now... and they can be.... not been so far, but lets hope
 

SlavaUkraini

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I agree with you. It’s hard to compare a naturally aspirated engine to a supercharged one.
 

VL3X

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I think it's a fair comparison. Especially the V6 Emira First Edition to the Cayman GTS. The base i4T Emira can be compared to the base H4T Cayman and Cayman S. I think a future V6 Emira with it's double wishbone suspension setup, more power, and added lightness could even be compared to the 718 GT4!

A lot of Emira buyers were shopping Caymans at some point (and probably still are). I was saving and shopping for a 981 GT4 for about 2 years before the Emira was revealed and I totally shifted my sights. Caymans are fantastic cars, but they are everywhere! There's nothing exotic or exciting about them to me - Except the GT cars or new 992 911s, but it really takes the trained eye of an enthusiast to spot the difference.

Here in the US, options are very limited for what I was looking for:
  • RWD
  • Mid-engine
  • Manual transmission
  • 400+ HP
For new cars, we're basically left to choose between a Cayman, Evora GT (leftover), Emira, or C8 Vette.

Other vehicles I've considered were the new Z, new Supra (now with 3 pedals!), M2CS, RS3 (more of a daily driver upgrade).
 

MCS

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I think it's a fair comparison. Especially the V6 Emira First Edition to the Cayman GTS. The base i4T Emira can be compared to the base H4T Cayman and Cayman S. I think a future V6 Emira with it's double wishbone suspension setup, more power, and added lightness could even be compared to the 718 GT4!

A lot of Emira buyers were shopping Caymans at some point (and probably still are). I was saving and shopping for a 981 GT4 for about 2 years before the Emira was revealed and I totally shifted my sights. Caymans are fantastic cars, but they are everywhere! There's nothing exotic or exciting about them to me - Except the GT cars or new 992 911s, but it really takes the trained eye of an enthusiast to spot the difference.

Here in the US, options are very limited for what I was looking for:
  • RWD
  • Mid-engine
  • Manual transmission
  • 400+ HP
For new cars, we're basically left to choose between a Cayman, Evora GT (leftover), Emira, or C8 Vette.

Other vehicles I've considered were the new Z, new Supra (now with 3 pedals!), M2CS, RS3 (more of a daily driver upgrade).
  • RWD
  • Mid-engine
  • Manual transmission
  • 394+ HP
Tweaked it for you. You’re good to go now 😆
 

VL3X

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  • RWD
  • Mid-engine
  • Manual transmission
  • 394+ HP
Tweaked it for you. You’re good to go now 😆

:ROFLMAO: I don't know what's up with that Drive review stating 394HP. We just keep losing ponies, huh?
 

TomE

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Lotus clearly had the GTS 4.0 in mind as a direct competitor for the V6 FE and the 2.0 for the i4 FE. All credit to them for setting a clear (and challenging) target. They haven’t beaten Porsche overall, but that wasn’t realistic.

What they appear to have done is get close enough to cause a lot of people to think hard about what they want from a sportscar and whether the Emira or Cayman ticks more of their individual criteria. If that gets more people to do test drives that’s great. If it gets more people to even consider the Emira, that’s great too. That’s part of what “the other sportscar” means.

When they launched the Evora they pitched it between the (2009) Cayman and base 911. It beat the Cayman in ECOTY but cost more, but it was cheaper than a 911 and had +2 seating. What became apparent was trying to pitch it between two competitors (whilst superficially a clever move) confused a lot of people about what to compare it against. This time they’ve got clear competitors in their sights.
 

FederGigant

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:ROFLMAO: I don't know what's up with that Drive review stating 394HP. We just keep losing ponies, huh?
It's probably because they thought it was 400 metric horsepower (Lotus in fact states 400 PS on the German website which is less than 400 of your British hp). Maybe we should look at the kW figure which is 298 and therefore 400hp/406PS. And by the way, the Evora GT 410 was 410hp/416 PS (metric again), which means that the Emira is only 10 hp down on power, not 16 as often stated.
 

WAX3D

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Many of the reviews compare the Emira driving experience against the Porsche 718 GTS and that's OK, I guess. But there is a BUT.

The 718 model line has been fleshed out to 4 models, 4 cyl entry model, 4 litre GTS, 4 litre GT4 and 4 litre GT4RS. Each model has a different suspension ( components and set up), each engine has different induction/breathing and maps, plus brakes and tyres..........so they become targetted at niche segments.

The Emira will arrive with many derivatives and iterations BUT at this time it's being compared with finely honed niche derivatives and thus has a hard job.

There are many reviews lauding the Emiras road-going dynamics and special 'Lotus character'. Its styling and quality upgrade also.

The fact that it retains 'Lotus DNA is a relief. Porsche has its DNA and long may that last.

So, at the risk of being defensive, I thought some perspective would help.
Many of the reviews compare the Emira driving experience against the Porsche 718 GTS and that's OK, I guess. But there is a BUT.

The 718 model line has been fleshed out to 4 models, 4 cyl entry model, 4 litre GTS, 4 litre GT4 and 4 litre GT4RS. Each model has a different suspension ( components and set up), each engine has different induction/breathing and maps, plus brakes and tyres..........so they become targetted at niche segments.

The Emira will arrive with many derivatives and iterations BUT at this time it's being compared with finely honed niche derivatives and thus has a hard job.

There are many reviews lauding the Emiras road-going dynamics and special 'Lotus character'. Its styling and quality upgrade also.

The fact that it retains 'Lotus DNA is a relief. Porsche has its DNA and long may that last.

So, at the risk of being defensive, I thought some perspective would help.
 

Nova

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It's going to be irritating if people keep asking me why I didn't buy a Cayman instead.
 

VL3X

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It's probably because they thought it was 400 metric horsepower (Lotus in fact states 400 PS on the German website which is less than 400 of your British hp). Maybe we should look at the kW figure which is 298 and therefore 400hp/406PS. And by the way, the Evora GT 410 was 410hp/416 PS (metric again), which means that the Emira is only 10 hp down on power, not 16 as often stated.

Every US based review and spec sheet states 416HP for the Evora GT (and 400 for the Emira).

Screenshot 2022-06-08 145409.jpg
 

xen

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Lotus clearly had the GTS 4.0 in mind as a direct competitor for the V6 FE and the 2.0 for the i4 FE. All credit to them for setting a clear (and challenging) target. They haven’t beaten Porsche overall, but that wasn’t realistic.

What they appear to have done is get close enough to cause a lot of people to think hard about what they want from a sportscar and whether the Emira or Cayman ticks more of their individual criteria. If that gets more people to do test drives that’s great. If it gets more people to even consider the Emira, that’s great too. That’s part of what “the other sportscar” means.

When they launched the Evora they pitched it between the (2009) Cayman and base 911. It beat the Cayman in ECOTY but cost more, but it was cheaper than a 911 and had +2 seating. What became apparent was trying to pitch it between two competitors (whilst superficially a clever move) confused a lot of people about what to compare it against. This time they’ve got clear competitors in their sights.
People really got carried away here and it turned into a bit of an echo chamber with only good positive posts allowed and every dissenting opinion either forcefully untrue or relegated to a separate thread.

What they've done given the resources they had is incredible but you only appreciate that if you take a step back and look at the big picture. Porsche pretty much design the whole drivetrain in house - think apple levels of integration. Lotus had to use a decade old engine with a bolt-on 3rd party supercharger and a gearbox co-opted from a diesel! They also knew from the start this was a dead-end so wouldn't be allowed the financial latitude to make any major fundamental changes from the previous platforms.

The 718 might be the more accomplished car but the lotus, as an alternative at least, is the more interesting proposition.
 

VL3X

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It's going to be irritating if people keep asking me why I didn't buy a Cayman instead.

Just point at one (or two) driving by during these hypothetical conversations and say "that's why."
 

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The Exige Final Edition came in two flavours. The 390 which had I believe 396hp and the 420 which replaced the sport 410 and had 420hp. Most of the differences between the two cars was in the suspension, anti roll bars etc. In a straight line Lotus claimed the 420 was marginally quicker (3.3 vs 3.7) but in real life I don’t suppose anyone noticed. If there is to be an Emira Sprint (or other such designation) with a few more horses, I would expect Lotus will pile in the track oriented stuff, light weight seats, carbon etc and claim its quicker around a track, but don’t expect it to make much difference in a non track environment. Thats why I have no issue piling straight in on the V6 FE rather than waiting for the next version. My Evora S had “only” 345 hp and I never found that slow!
 

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Every US based review and spec sheet states 416HP for the Evora GT (and 400 for the Emira).

View attachment 6334
Then they are all wrong unfortunately. Kilowatts are your friend ;) The Evora 410 GT had 306 kW which means 410 hp (wow, the same number as in it's name, what a coincidence) and 416 metric horsepower (PS).
So if we are talking kilowatts, the heavily detuned Emira engine falls short of the much more powerful Evora GT by 8.
 
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xen

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To add...

I actually cross-shopped this against a 911 CS, call me crazy but for the fun weekend car I was looking for I'd still pick the Emira.
 

xen

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Then they are all wrong unfortunately. Kilowatts are your friend ;) The Evora 410 GT had 306 kW which means 410 hp (wow, the same number as in it's name, that's a coincidence) and 416 metric horsepower (PS).
So if we are talking kilowatts, the heavily detuned Emira engine falls short of the much more powerful Evora GT by 8.
I don't believe anyone referred to the engine as heavily detuned. The point was:

- We know you can get 430hp reliably from the engine
- We know the Emira is a tad heavier than the preceding Evora

So...it would only make sense to release a replacement that wasn't 'slower' than the car it's was replacing...

The i4 on the other hand....
 
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