How much life out of stock pads?

[Sanguineous]

Just throwing my question here since you guys seems to knowledgeable about brake pad..
I understand the positive of buying aggressive race brake pads but if I NEVER plan on tracking the Emira, is there benefit of buying track brake pads for daily use?

For example If I look at EBC brake pads stock on GRP website, for the same price I can buy the Red/Yellow/Blue pads. Since I don't plan on tracking and want longevity the Red seems to be the obvious choice... But what would happen if I daily the Blue Pads instead.
Are they more resistant or opposite and wear more?
Do they work well only when they are hot so the daily braking would not be good?

What are you thoughts about choosing the right brake pad and where would you place the OEM Lotus brake pad in this EBC range?

 

[Beachbum]

Not sure how important this is in the US, but after a few horror stories about insurance not paying out in the UK, I make sure whatever pads I have on my car, are never labelled "track Use only", or similar wording

 

[Martin_S]

To me pads that last a very long time cant be working right! (based on no technical knowledge at all lol) but I do know that by swapping from what Lotus fitted as standard on my Exige to CL 5+ the brakes worked sooner (warming up was minimal) and the braking was improved greatly. (I have used those pads for over 10 years now).
On a negative note, they lasted 8000 rear and 5000 front on the Exige V6 so on something as heavy as the Emira, will probably last even less.

 

[OppositeLock]

My Elise pad wear was similar in the rear, with the inside wearing a lot faster. However, the fronts wore evenly. I think it's just the caliper design. The Elige rear brakes were single piston and had slider pins to the other side. Those create a little bit of resistance, and a little bit less force on the other side as a result.

So far, I've used up four sets of pads on my Emira. The fronts wear a little bit faster than the rears, but the wear has been even side to side. They do wear a little non-uniformly on each pad, with the leading edges of the pads being a tiny bit thinner than the trailing edges.

 

[geoffbland]

Just throwing my question here since you guys seems to knowledgeable about brake pad..
I understand the positive of buying aggressive race brake pads but if I NEVER plan on tracking the Emira, is there benefit of buying track brake pads for daily use?
For example If I look at EBC brake pads stock on GRP website, for the same price I can buy the Red/Yellow/Blue pads. Since I don't plan on tracking and want longevity the Red seems to be the obvious choice... But what would happen if I daily the Blue Pads instead.
Are they more resistant or opposite and wear more?
Do they work well only when they are hot so the daily braking would not be good?
What are you thoughts about choosing the right brake pad and where would you place the OEM Lotus brake pad in this EBC range?

EBC Blue Pads are the track-based pads.
Track pads generally are more resistant so wear less (but that means more wear on your rotors - the friction has to come from somewhere). This can also make them more noisy.
Track pads generally are more designed to withstand more heat and so will likely need to get them up to temp to work at their best. It is unlikely that you will get them up to temp with road use, it's also unlikely that you will be able to spend time every time you first set out from home to get them up to temp. Until they are up to temp you will have increased braking distances and they may also be very noisy/squealy.
All pads differ though so it depends....

For reference in road driving your brakes are unlikely to get over boiling point, maybe they would get to 100-120C on a spirited downhill drive like coming down Stelvio. On track days, 500C or more is not uncommon which is why you need to worry about boiling the brake fluid and why a cool down lap is always important (also why you don't put the handbrake on in the pitlane just after coming in). You need to do a few tracks days before you realise how much braking is involved and how hard you brake on a track day compared to just normal road driving.

Interesting point. The early Elises came with Aluminium Metal Matrix Composite (MMC) brake disks. Everyone raved about how good these were and how progressive the braking feel was - they were also really light. But Lotus had to stop fitting them though as when used on the track they started exploding as the MMC developed cracks at high temperature, the disk had to get to around 700C for this to happen. An Elise S1 weighs less than half what an Emira does.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Got about 1 autocross day with the stock pads

 

[Orchardbike]

If you use the car only on the road, go with road pads. Track pads are designed for the track and you won’t get the benefit of them on the road.

 

[trackday14]

Just throwing my question here since you guys seems to knowledgeable about brake pad..
I understand the positive of buying aggressive race brake pads but if I NEVER plan on tracking the Emira, is there benefit of buying track brake pads for daily use?

For example If I look at EBC brake pads stock on GRP website, for the same price I can buy the Red/Yellow/Blue pads. Since I don't plan on tracking and want longevity the Red seems to be the obvious choice... But what would happen if I daily the Blue Pads instead.
Are they more resistant or opposite and wear more?
Do they work well only when they are hot so the daily braking would not be good?

What are you thoughts about choosing the right brake pad and where would you place the OEM Lotus brake pad in this EBC range?

If you don’t track your car, but have an aggressive driving style, I would get the EBC Yellow or Blue - not the Red. For me, I really like the “bite” of the Yellow…My street driving is not particularly aggressive (except for country roads), but I do a lot of track time - so I focus on track pads that are also streetable.

 

[geoffbland]

You can find all the details for EBC pads here --> https://www.ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/

 

[geoffbland]

For me, I really like the “bite” of the Yellow…My street driving is not particularly aggressive (except for country roads), but I do a lot of track time - so I focus on track pads that are also streetable.

Worth you reading this - about EBC no longer recommending the newer Yellow pads for track use :

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-yellowstuff-fast-street-pads/#:~:text=High-efficiency performance pad for,oversize upgrades have been fitted.

 

[SteveB]

I took my Emira to an EBC car event at their UK base in Northampton last year. Had a discussion with a couple of their technical guys regarding pad selection and the feedback was EBC yellows are intended for road use but can be driven on track (but require additional heat cycles before track use). Conversely, EBC blues are primarily track pads that can be driven on roads (and require less bedding in/heat cycles). Interestingly, Bluestuff NDX pads are R90 approved in Europe meaning they are legal to use for street use. I fitted EBC Blues on my Emira and they are great for everyday driving (work well from cold but don’t grab or squeal and less dust compared to stock Ferodo pads) but with noticably better stopping power at higher speeds. EBC now recommend their Bluestuff pads over Yellowstuff for road driving with occasional track use.

 

[Beachbum]

This is doing my head in

 

[geoffbland]

EBC yellows are intended for road use but can be driven on track (but require additional heat cycles before track use). Conversely, EBC blues are primarily track pads that can be driven on roads (and require less bedding in/heat cycles). Interestingly, Bluestuff NDX pads are R90 approved in Europe meaning they are legal to use for street use. I fitted EBC Blues on my Emira and they are great for everyday driving (work well from cold but don’t grab or squeal and less dust compared to stock Ferodo pads) but with noticably better stopping power at higher speeds. EBC now recommend their Bluestuff pads over Yellowstuff for road driving with occasional track use.

If I'm reading this correctly then there's actauly no use case that they would recommend Yellow pads for then?

This is doing my head in

I won't mention that I'm using actually EBC Greens then*

*On my Elise that is

 

[Martin_S]

In 24 years of owning Lotus built cars, I've never met any Elise, Exige, Evora owner that used EBC pads?
I tried the greens for 5 days on an Exige then threw them away. Is this an Emira thing?

 

[SteveB]

If I'm reading this correctly then there's actauly no use case that they would recommend Yellow pads for then?


I won't mention that I'm using actually EBC Greens then*

*On my Elise that is

My understanding of EBC current recommendations:
Normal road use - Redstuff
Fast Road use - Yellowstuff
Fast Road + some track - Bluestuff
Mostly track & race - RP1 & RPX

Greenstuff is a very soft compound intended for lightweight cars and karts.

 

[geoffbland]

My understanding of EBC current recommendations:
Normal road use - Redstuff
Fast Road use - Yellowstuff
Fast Road + some track - Bluestuff
Mostly track & race - RP1 & RPX

Greenstuff is a very soft compound intended for lightweight cars and karts.

From the EBC website - https://www.ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/ :

[Edited out this paragraph as what I posted here was incorrect].

EBC Greens are "For spirited street use on lighter sports sedans and hot hatches".
RP1 & RPX seem to be for "TrackDay and or Full Race Competition" only, so maybe not suitable for the road?

In 24 years of owning Lotus built cars, I've never met any Elise, Exige, Evora owner that used EBC pads?
I tried the greens for 5 days on an Exige then threw them away. Is this an Emira thing?

There were quite a few Elise owners using EBC Green Stuff for track-use when I used to track my Elise - we're talking 20 years ago now though. I do see that EMC no longer recommend them for track use these days - so it may be that no-one has used these for years. They are very soft and I could next get through a set of pads in one track day - although back then that was with unlimited track time. I still use them on my Elise but just on the road, great feel and very progressive - probably as they are so soft. On my Emira I still have the stock pads. https://www.ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-greenstuff-brake-pads/

 

[Beachbum]

When I first got my 111R in 2005, EBC were heavily frowned upon in the Elsie community. So much so, that EBC heard about it and offered the first X people to respond to them, they would send out Yellow Stuff pads FOC to them
I was one of the lucky ones and had them installed once the OEM pads needed replacing, so was late in experiencing them, compared to others who fitted them immediately.
I was not a fan and the responses from others were similar. Not great when cold and took a lot to get them up to temp. And these were the pads EBC recommended for Road/Fast Road. Since them I have avoided EBC, but obviously 20yrs have passed since and tech will have moved on, so maybe worth considering.

 

[Sanguineous]

From my couple of research, this is the best I could find to summarize the color vs brake pad from EBC:
(With the update that YellowStuff are now not recommended for track uses.)

Looks like RedStuff is the best for rotor wear, which will probably be my choice since no track day are planned. The low dust is just a plus!
If it wasn't for rotor wear, i would go YellowStuff.

BlueStuff might have some braking problem under low temp (which for me in Canada could be a problem in Spring/Autumn) so choose the right "NDX Series" version.

Last thing, the RP series isn't legal for road use... Just a heads up, not like cops would look at your brake pads...

 

[Orchardbike]

From the EBC website - https://www.ebcbrakes.com/ebc-brake-pad-selector-tool/ :

Normal road use - Black
Fast Road use - Yellow
Fast Road + some track - Blue
Mostly track & race - Red

View attachment 76539

EBC Greens are "For spirited street use on lighter sports sedans and hot hatches".
RP1 & RPX seem to be for "TrackDay and or Full Race Competition" only, so maybe not suitable for the road?


There were quite a few Elise owners using EBC Green Stuff for track-use when I used to track my Elise - we're talking 20 years ago now though. I do see that EMC no longer recommend them for track use these days - so it may be that no-one has used these for years. They are very soft and I could next get through a set of pads in one track day - although back then that was with unlimited track time. I still use them on my Elise but just on the road, great feel and very progressive - probably as they are so soft. On my Emira I still have the stock pads. https://www.ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-greenstuff-brake-pads/

This is categorically NOT what I was told by an EBC tech. He stated that the reds were for fast road, no track with lowest dust. I’ve been using them for around 3 months and can confirm that they are VERY similar to the stock pads, but slightly less grabby and very little dust

 

[geoffbland]

This is categorically NOT what I was told by an EBC tech. He stated that the reds were for fast road, no track with lowest dust. I’ve been using them for around 3 months and can confirm that they are VERY similar to the stock pads, but slightly less grabby and very little dust

Interesting. Seems like I should fire off an email to EBC and ask them directly then.

Edit: Orchardbike is correct, red stuff is for fast road, no track use. EBC website is a bit misleading.