Bye bye Toyota V6 AND AMG 4 cylinder engines!

[Six Speed Stephen]

I am certain that Lotus knows this. The V6 sells in both Auto and Manual. It must be a 90% take rate on the V6 manual vs Auto. It's possible they go the Corvette C8 route and not offer a manual, but just like the C8 - I think the manual is going to happen. Same for Lotus, perhaps not right away, as they want the marketing to be about numbers, track times and 0-60....

Strangely brands are launching manual laters in the car lifecycles

 

[kitkat]

The 4-speed transmission only comes with the 4LDHT version of the Horse W30. It's a hybrid transmission - so a lot of electric infill and with gearing in the electric motors too. The "4 gears" is a bit misleading. Also the engine and drive train can be configured in lots of different ways so at this stage everything is just speculation until Lotus (or as it seems @kitkat) confirms anything.

LOL, the driveunit is confirmed by the power train engineers there, the transmissions are not, so far there are no solutions for a manual.

 

[Esprit_V8]

The 4-speed transmission only comes with the 4LDHT version of the Horse W30. It's a hybrid transmission - so a lot of electric infill and with gearing in the electric motors too. The "4 gears" is a bit misleading. Also the engine and drive train can be configured in lots of different ways so at this stage everything is just speculation until Lotus (or as it seems @kitkat) confirms anything.

Four speed?

It is extremely unlikely that the 4LDHT will be used for the Emira Hybrid for the following reasons:

EDIT: On second thought, Emira Hybrid might go longitudinal. See my follow up post in this thread.

1. Longitudinal Application - As the L in the model name implies, this transmission is designed for longitudinal application.

Geely does have a 3-speed variant that is used in the Lynk 900 that is for transverse application, and a single speed variant used in the Zeekr 8X/9X SUV, yep that 1400ps SUV out-drag the Ferrari Purosangue recently featured in Carwow's Video, which by the way is based on the same platform as the Lotus ForMe and Eletre X PHEV.

What is a dedicated hybrid transmission (DHT)? It's basically like the transmission found in Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which has a single gear ratio in parallel hybrid mode. Some Chinese manufactures have developed DHT with multiple-gear ratios in parallel hybrid mode, namely Geely, GWM and Chery.

DHT (Dedicated Hybrid Transmission) in longitudinal applications at the moment are used in body-on-frame vehicles in China. Namely Denza B5/B8, BYD Shark, and Tank 500 Hi4-Z. The longitudinal mounting of the ICE and Transmission allows for more aggressive steering geometry. Keep in mind that despite the longitudinal mounting, the transmission still sends power to the front wheels only, though it can function as generator which in turn powers the electric motors driving the rear axle.

2. Battery Size - In order to utilise the full power potential of the P3 motor of 350kw to 450kw in EV mode, it will require 29.1 to 37.5 kWh worth of battery with 12C discharge rate. Even with 30C we are looking at 12 to 15 kWh. Which is probably not so easy to package into the existing Emira chassis without major modifications.

 

[DigitalWiz]

I’m failing to see the value add here. If they go with this, you lose the “it’s gotta be a manual” crowd. It will undoubtedly be 1.5-2x more expensive, so you lose a big chunk of the mid-budget buyers, and it’ll undoubtedly be more software driven and complex and will lose the “I want a more analog experience” crowd. This is most of the Emira market.

Also, who’s going 160k deep and not going with a manual 911 at that point for performance, reliability, and depreciation?

I’m so very happy with my v6 auto at the budget price I got it.

 

[Esprit_V8]

I am certain these new Emira variants will be very quick and I dont' think Lotus is dumb enough to get rid of the manual - they see the Emira sales numbers vs the i4. My take - there will be a non-hybrid entry V6 emira w/ manual and a much faster version with the Hybrid powertrain. Think 911 Carrera T and 911 GTS.

The new Esprit V8 with a manual and 1000 BHP - this is very unlikely. They aren't aiming at Gordon Murray, they are going after Ferrari / Mclaren. The new Esprit will be a much more "Lotus" like supercar than the Evija was - as long as they knock it out of the park and undercut pricing vs competition, I imagine it will move more units than the Evija for sure.

I think this is great for Lotus, and it seems they are listening to the clients.

At minimum, it will have to be a 48V mild hybrid. The Horse W30 is a belt-less motor, which is fantastic, but necessarily the AC compressor will have to be electronically driven.

Horse does have a 7-Speed DCT and 6-Speed Manual in their portfolio, but both lack the required torque capacity.

The Graziano DCT used in the Aston Martin Valhalla might have used some IP (intellectual property) from Geely. Specifically, the electric motor attached to even number gear shaft, previously seen on the XC40 PHEV. If the V8 is going to use the AMG V8, I can see the V8 model using Graziano DCT.

I would also consider mounting the V6 longitudinally in the Emira, this will make the necessary plumbing much easier, given the twin-turbo nature of the motor. In which case, a variant of the Graziano DCT can be used, perhaps something already proven like the DL800 used by the R8 and Huracan.

 

[AMG Emira]

I've never even heard of a 4 speed automatic

 

[Ceej]

Me dreaming of Lotus returning to F1:

Last week: F1 claims the return of the v8 with a less impactful hybrid system by 2030-31

A week later: lotus reveals production of a hybrid v8 2028-2030

 

[Esprit_V8]

A 4-speed automatic gearbox makes perfect sense if it's paired with a hybrid power train with a flat power curve, it would also be more efficient. I'm sure the engineers and management at Lotus see that.

Unfortunately, what makes good efficient sense isn't why people buy a Lotus. If we wanted something efficient with a bunch of power, we'd all be driving a Tesla.

The disconnect is well illustrated with this very recent quote.
“Lotus made the decision to focus on the six-cylinder partly due to reaction from the US market, which has driven demand for the Toyota-supplied V6. “They told us that they love the V6 engine, and actually the V6 version is our best-seller in the US market,” said Feng.”

... Feng (Lotus) thinks Americans like a V6 engine. I think that's not true. I think the reason the V6 sells well here is because it's the only way to get a manual transmission.

In the unveiling of the Lotus ForMe / Electre PHEV in China, Feng Qingfeng said in Mandarin that over 1000HP is too much, and that it is too difficult to control. Which is why the ForMe / Electre X PHEV has 952ps, it's on purpose. He said this, knowing full well that the Zeekr 9X and the upcoming 8X will have a high performance variant with 1400ps. These cars are based on the same SEA-R platform.

The Chinese forums are basically laughing at his remarks. That the performance focused Lotus brand does not have the more powerful powertrain found in sister brand Zeekr, and that the Zeekr 9X/8X feature 315mm width rear tires over the 285mm rear of the ForMe / Electre PHEV, so much for handling.

Either Feng is clueless, or Geely is not willing to give full access of their technology portfolio to Lotus Technology Inc., which is the EV/PHEV division that's separately listed on Nasdaq. Forgive me for not being optimistic. Feng owns a bit over 7% of Lotus Technology, he should have enough incentive to want Lotus to do well.

Feng compared the Lotus ForMe to the Lamborghini Urus in the ForMe unveil in China. Again, talking about clueless. Imagine if it is the ForMe / Eletre PHEV with 1400ps that's featured in the CarWow video instead, how much will that boost the Lotus brand and help with the sales globally. Of course, Zeekr is now a fully owned subsidiary of Geely and Lotus is not, that certainly is a factor.

 

[MiamiBlue]

4 speed automatic?! I'm guessing this is no paddleshift DCT gearbox. More like a CVT electric hybrid drivetrain. Rev counter gone to be replaced with a power meter?

Apparently this is coming next year. Yesterday nobody outside of the Lotus inner circle even knew about it.

The most reliable part of the car is the Toyota engine. Not liking the prospect of a new design Chinese made hybrid electric system.

What could possibly go wrong ...

 

[Jinba ittai]

The Chinese forums are basically laughing at his remarks. That the performance focused Lotus brand does not have the more powerful powertrain

I don’t get what’s funny. This is on brand for Lotus. It’s about driver engagement rather than HP numbers.

 

[EmiraDude]

I've never even heard of a 4 speed automatic

You must be very young (no offense intended, this is a good thing).

 

[Mr. Wolfe]

4 speed automatic?! I'm guessing this is no paddleshift DCT gearbox. More like a CVT electric hybrid drivetrain. Rev counter gone to be replaced with a power meter?

Apparently this is coming next year. Yesterday nobody outside of the Lotus inner circle even knew about it.

The most reliable part of the car is the Toyota engine. Not liking the prospect of a new design Chinese made hybrid electric system.

What could possibly go wrong ...

I heard it might be 3 on the tree.

Mr. Wolfe

 

[Esprit_V8]

I don’t get what’s funny. This is on brand for Lotus. It’s about driver engagement rather than HP numbers.

It is funny because he was trying hard to gaslight his audience, which are generally the more enthusiastic and knowledgeable bunch.

1. If 1000ps is too much for people to control, then why is Zeekr selling the 8X/9X based on the same platform with 1400ps?

2. If Lotus is all about handling, then why not equip the car with 275mm Front and 315mm rear tires like the Zeekr 8X/9X.

3. If Lotus is all about handling, the 1400ps variant has dual rear motor, which can be used for torque vectoring to further aid handling, so why not?

4. If Lotus is all about add lightness, there is a 55kWh battery pack that’s used on the 8X and 9X. Why not use the lighter battery pack for the Lotus ForMe / Eletre X PHEV?

His gaslighting and overconfidence was not well received.

 

[Foxy87]

LOL, the driveunit is confirmed by the power train engineers there, the transmissions are not, so far there are no solutions for a manual.

Ok, all I need to know is how high are the chances that the horse v6 in the Emira will be offered with a manual? My V6 SE 2026 just arrived at the dealers lot. Taking delivery in 10-14 days. Probably would rethink if there is a high chance for a manual facelift Emira

 

[kitkat]

Ok, all I need to know is how high are the chances that the horse v6 in the Emira will be offered with a manual? My V6 SE 2026 just arrived at the dealers lot. Taking delivery in 10-14 days. Probably would rethink if there is a high chance for a manual facelift Emira

Low.

I also don't think any of you are going to want a Horse W30 non-hybrid Emira platform engine. You're asking to try out a brand new Chinese made engine that is going to be low 400hp, it's going to be a replacement for the 2GRFE/M139, not a big upgrade or anything.

 

[Foxy87]

Thanks for easing my mind

 

[Ralph2025]

I would be reluctant to buy a powertrain from a company I'd never heard of until now and was founded two years ago. (even with Renault foundations) Horse Wiki
The appeal of the reliable proven Toyota drivetrain is what sold me on the Emira.

Half French, half Chinese. What could go wrong

 

[Jinba ittai]

It is funny because he was trying hard to gaslight his audience, which are generally the more enthusiastic and knowledgeable bunch.

1. If 1000ps is too much for people to control, then why is Zeekr selling the 8X/9X based on the same platform with 1400ps?

2. If Lotus is all about handling, then why not equip the car with 275mm Front and 315mm rear tires like the Zeekr 8X/9X.

3. If Lotus is all about handling, the 1400ps variant has dual rear motor, which can be used for torque vectoring to further aid handling, so why not?

4. If Lotus is all about add lightness, there is a 55kWh battery pack that’s used on the 8X and 9X. Why not use the lighter battery pack for the Lotus ForMe / Eletre X PHEV?

His gaslighting and overconfidence was not well received.

I appreciate a lot of people always want MORE. However, IMO it is very Lotus to focus on driving experience qualitatively rather than focus on performance metrics. From that standpoint I think he’s right 1000 hp is too much. The wider tires may have more traction but would likely have impact on unsprung weight and steering feel. Torque vectoring may help you corner better but does it feel as natural and predictable? I don’t have a good explanation for the heavier battery pack - that does seem to go against Lotus ethos. Overall though I think he may understand the brand better than some of the people laughing in the forums. My 2 cents.

 

[AMG Emira]

You must be very young (no offense intended, this is a good thing).

No, I'm in my 40s I just always drove manuals when I was young, I didn't start driving autos until my mid 30s due to convenience lol

 

[cyanmauve]

Maybe this powertrain will attract Chinese buyers. I know nothing about the sports car market there.

This car will be an abysmal failure in the United States and Europe. For so many reasons.

The increased power is irrelevant.

The increase in power will come with an increase in price.

Would I pay more for an Emira with a unique motorsport-ish NA or boosted engine? Sure.

Hybrid powetrain? Nope. I see it as something that devalues the car.