U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date

[jmn444]

New deposits placed today are looking at 60-65 weeks for delivery unless you pick up a cancellation and get stung for a markup.

I suggest getting a deposit down before the press driving reviews come out on 7 June, as that will probably prompt a further round of deposits. Then dealer demo cars arriving in the US from September will prompt the next wave.

Is this a guess or what Lotus is saying? I've been uncertain about when I can expect a car, so hopefully this means my late August deposit will get me a early/spring 23 delivery... fingers crossed!

 

[Bigred911s1]

Well the good thing about Lotus of North Jersey is that they aren't selling above msrp (at least not this first batch of First Editions). Porsche dealers are out of control with ADM. Porsche Delaware are great guys, but they already sold their 4RS allocations for ~$100k over msrp.. Same with the 922 3RS.

Main Line (RDS Auto Group) have a great rep and they confirmed with me recently that Lotus of Philadelphia will be opening sometime in 2023 and will be on West Chester Pike (their old Porsche pre-owned lot). Might be worth checking with them too.. That's where I'll be getting service, parts, and warranty work done for my Emira since it's only ~20 minutes from me (compared to 2 hrs to Summit).

He thanks for the info on PML. I have purchsasee three Porsche’s form form Tim there and he’s the one who put me on the GT4 list. He confirmed they will sell at MSRP but did also say the list is long and demand is high so no guarantee on getting one. I’ll will reach out to him about an Emira. He’s always been great with me over the years.

 

[LotusB]

From reading an interview with Matt Windle, he said they've managed to increase their production capacity from 5000 cars to 7000 cars, but the bottleneck right now is chassis production. They make their own chassis and they're already running 3 shifts and are at max capacity, so they're going to have to outsource some of that, which he said they will. He also said it's difficult to get things going because of the challenge of finding people to hire. He said they could do a night shift, but it's hard to find people willing to work those hours, but he's working on it.

All of this is before there are any final production cars being reviewed or out on the roads. You can imagine what it's going to be like once those things happen. I hope Lotus is REALLY putting in the effort to get more dealerships out there. They're going to be needed.

Can you link to the interview please? I'm always interested in the latest facts and I haven't read this information. Thanks.

 

[Eagle7]

Can you link to the interview please? I'm always interested in the latest facts and I haven't read this information. Thanks.

Here ya go:

Avanza Hybrid Meluncur di IIMS 2023, Toyota Rangga Sabar Dulu? - VNExplorer

Toyota Rangga bakal resmi dijual di tahun depan, harganya dibawah Toyota Hilux Otomotifnet.com – Mobil baru Toyota yang sempat dikabarkan mengaspal pada awal tahun 2024 adalah Toyota Rangga, yang diprediksi bakal diluncurkan di ajang Indonesia International Motor Show (IIMS) 2024. Namun hal ini...

vnexplorer.net

 

[VL3X]

Here ya go:

Avanza Hybrid Meluncur di IIMS 2023, Toyota Rangga Sabar Dulu? - VNExplorer

Toyota Rangga bakal resmi dijual di tahun depan, harganya dibawah Toyota Hilux Otomotifnet.com – Mobil baru Toyota yang sempat dikabarkan mengaspal pada awal tahun 2024 adalah Toyota Rangga, yang diprediksi bakal diluncurkan di ajang Indonesia International Motor Show (IIMS) 2024. Namun hal ini...

vnexplorer.net

Um.. What? Why does Matt think women dislike V6s?

"...a lot of females buy sports cars or they have sports cars bought for them and they’re entry level. They don’t want a V6 – that 2.0-litre with a dual-clutch is perfect.”

 

[TomE]

Is this a guess or what Lotus is saying? I've been uncertain about when I can expect a car, so hopefully this means my late August deposit will get me a early/spring 23 delivery... fingers crossed!

It's what Lotus Sales said about 3 weeks ago.

 

[jmn444]

It's what Lotus Sales said about 3 weeks ago.

awesome, thanks!

 

[mjw930]

It's what Lotus Sales said about 3 weeks ago.

Everyone needs to remember that quotes like this from Lotus UK sales only apply to the UK. In the US the dealers play a completely different role. Depending on where you place your deposit, how much extra you are willing to pay and the dealer principal’s scruples you could have a car in 30 weeks, 60 weeks or never……

Remember, in the US you are not buying the car from Lotus, you are buying it from a Lotus dealer. The dealer buys the car from Lotus.

 

[jmn444]

Everyone needs to remember that quotes like this from Lotus UK sales only apply to the UK. In the US the dealers play a completely different role. Depending on where you place your deposit, how much extra you are willing to pay and the dealer principal’s scruples you could have a car in 30 weeks, 60 weeks or never……

Remember, in the US you are not buying the car from Lotus, you are buying it from a Lotus dealer. The dealer buys the car from Lotus.

I get that, but it's a reasonable estimate still. Lots of variable in this world could mess up any estimated timeline.

 

[EspritGuy]

Everyone needs to remember that quotes like this from Lotus UK sales only apply to the UK. In the US the dealers play a completely different role. Depending on where you place your deposit, how much extra you are willing to pay and the dealer principal’s scruples you could have a car in 30 weeks, 60 weeks or never……

Remember, in the US you are not buying the car from Lotus, you are buying it from a Lotus dealer. The dealer buys the car from Lotus.

True but remember Dealer Allocation is a US factor.
Build orders only relate to allocations.
They can't get you what they haven't got.

On another note, wouldn't selling a place in line run afoul of the Lotus confirmation process? I thought it involved Lotus comparing the build order identity with the deposit identity. Only then does Lotus confirm the order and it enters the production book.

 

[nosirrahx]

True but remember Dealer Allocation is a US factor.
Build orders only relate to allocations.
They can't get you what they haven't got.

On another note, wouldn't selling a place in line run afoul of the Lotus confirmation process? I thought it involved Lotus comparing the build order identity with the deposit identity. Only then does Lotus confirm the order and it enters the production book.

Way easier to just flip the car to someone that actually wants your spec. The dealership can get in on that and do all the work for you taking a chunk of the markup. There has to be a lot of demand for that to work though. This is happening with the NSX type S right now where a bunch of buyers are flipping them through the dealership so the dealership owner can bypass the rules about them holding the car for a year if they buy it personally.

 

[mjw930]

True but remember Dealer Allocation is a US factor.
Build orders only relate to allocations.
They can't get you what they haven't got.

On another note, wouldn't selling a place in line run afoul of the Lotus confirmation process? I thought it involved Lotus comparing the build order identity with the deposit identity. Only then does Lotus confirm the order and it enters the production book.

Yes, dealer allocation is the deciding factor and for all of us not in the FE short list your potential delivery date is based on assumptions of what the total quarterly allocations will be for your dealership. They have a idea but I believe nothing has been etched in stone beyond FE allocation. For someone like me who has made a deposit and is in the high 100’s on the dealers list the best questimate the dealer can make is I will be able to place an order against a base allocation in mid 2023. My dealer, Naples, has over 70 FE allocations and expect at least 240 slots in 2023 which is how they came up with mid ‘23 order for late ‘23 delivery. But it’s an educated guess, at best. I’m sure they have either passed 200 on their list or will once the next reviews come online so someone new who isn’t willing to pay extortion (ADM) is looking at 2024 or beyond.

As for following the Lotus Cars reservation process, I have confirmation from the head of Lotus Cars NA that each official order must be matched up to a registered reservation, that’s all. Lotus doesn’t track reservation date or manage sequencing, that’s entirely up to dealer discretion. So it’s easy for me to sell my position in line, the dealer matches me up with a customer looking to jump the line. That customer and I agree on a price and once I confirm they accept the new customers deposit, register them with Lotus and the new customer cuts me a check. I then either move to the back of the line or I request a refund and drop off the list. This is verbatim what my salesman described as the process and offered me the option of negotiating with someone lower on the list if I was willing to spend some money to move up. They did point out they were not taking any of that extra money, it was a separate transaction between their customers. That’s actually them being quite transparent and sticking to their agreements to only sell for MSRP which is what Lotus has strongly suggested their dealers do. However, Lotus cannot enforce that without running afoul of US dealer franchise laws in many states.

 

[TomE]

Everyone needs to remember that quotes like this from Lotus UK sales only apply to the UK. In the US the dealers play a completely different role. Depending on where you place your deposit, how much extra you are willing to pay and the dealer principal’s scruples you could have a car in 30 weeks, 60 weeks or never……

Remember, in the US you are not buying the car from Lotus, you are buying it from a Lotus dealer. The dealer buys the car from Lotus.

It does apply exactly in the UK but it also applies less precisely in other countries. My info was intended to illustrate where the back of the line is at the moment, when looking at total global deposits registered with Lotus from all dealers worldwide.

If you placed a deposit today in the US you might get lucky or unlucky compared to this. But it's hopefully still useful as a benchmark.

 

[LotusB]

Here ya go:

Avanza Hybrid Meluncur di IIMS 2023, Toyota Rangga Sabar Dulu? - VNExplorer

Toyota Rangga bakal resmi dijual di tahun depan, harganya dibawah Toyota Hilux Otomotifnet.com – Mobil baru Toyota yang sempat dikabarkan mengaspal pada awal tahun 2024 adalah Toyota Rangga, yang diprediksi bakal diluncurkan di ajang Indonesia International Motor Show (IIMS) 2024. Namun hal ini...

vnexplorer.net

Great, thanks! I was starting to get a little worried about them pumping out too many cars, but doubt that'll happen.

“The original plan was to peak at 5000 a year and we’re now at 7000 a year, so we’ve got an extra 40 per cent capacity. This year we plan to build 4000 cars, next year we’ll be at the peak of 7000 cars.”

We're half way through the year and they think they'll build 4k cars this year?? Hard to believe when UK deliveries keep getting pushed back and US deliveries need to start in September. The US dealers are only getting a handful of cars in the first shipment with a ramp-up later. I think the numbers are a bit of wishful thinking, but we'll know soon enough.

However, even if we take the numbers as they've been presented.... that would mean: 4k cars for 2022 and 7k cars from 2023-2028. That's about 39k cars production run. He also implied that they may continue to produce the Emira even while they're transitioning to the Type 135.... so maybe another couple of years of 500 cars? We're up to 40k cars.

In my mind we’ll go down to a lower volume for Emira of 500 a year or something like that for the markets we can put the car into, and then the main production hall will be put over to Type 135

I'm obviously extrapolating and making many assumptions, but then again, so are they. Their target was 1/3rd of cars to go to the US... so out of 40k cars, <15k will end up in US over the next 6+ years. I like that. As much as I want Lotus to succeed, I think they'll shoot themselves in the foot if they overbuild the car and exceed demand. Part of the desire is that it's sexy, but different and will be rare. People also want what they can't have. As soon as it's commonplace (if that'll be possible) then the cross-shopping back to Porsche will kick into higher gear. That is to say.... I hope they don't just add more shifts and more factories and whatever. The demand needs to always be way higher than supply for a luxury brand.

 

[TomE]

Great, thanks! I was starting to get a little worried about them pumping out too many cars, but doubt that'll happen.



We're half way through the year and they think they'll build 4k cars this year?? Hard to believe when UK deliveries keep getting pushed back and US deliveries need to start in September. The US dealers are only getting a handful of cars in the first shipment with a ramp-up later. I think the numbers are a bit of wishful thinking, but we'll know soon enough.

However, even if we take the numbers as they've been presented.... that would mean: 4k cars for 2022 and 7k cars from 2023-2028. That's about 39k cars production run. He also implied that they may continue to produce the Emira even while they're transitioning to the Type 135.... so maybe another couple of years of 500 cars? We're up to 40k cars.



I'm obviously extrapolating and making many assumptions, but then again, so are they. Their target was 1/3rd of cars to go to the US... so out of 40k cars, <15k will end up in US over the next 6+ years. I like that. As much as I want Lotus to succeed, I think they'll shoot themselves in the foot if they overbuild the car and exceed demand. Part of the desire is that it's sexy, but different and will be rare. People also want what they can't have. As soon as it's commonplace (if that'll be possible) then the cross-shopping back to Porsche will kick into higher gear. That is to say.... I hope they don't just add more shifts and more factories and whatever. The demand needs to always be way higher than supply for a luxury brand.

The original plan was 3500 cars in 2022 starting from May customer deliveries, with single shift. They will now start deliveries from July but with two shifts almost immediately. So 4000 this year is feasible.

I agree we want it to be successful for Lotus (which means higher volumes than Evora) but not so successful that it’s over-supplied or more commonplace.

 

[mjw930]

Build one less car than demand. If they can attain that and the cars a hit then everyone wins.

 

[DerTheDer]

Great, thanks! I was starting to get a little worried about them pumping out too many cars, but doubt that'll happen.



We're half way through the year and they think they'll build 4k cars this year?? Hard to believe when UK deliveries keep getting pushed back and US deliveries need to start in September. The US dealers are only getting a handful of cars in the first shipment with a ramp-up later. I think the numbers are a bit of wishful thinking, but we'll know soon enough.

However, even if we take the numbers as they've been presented.... that would mean: 4k cars for 2022 and 7k cars from 2023-2028. That's about 39k cars production run. He also implied that they may continue to produce the Emira even while they're transitioning to the Type 135.... so maybe another couple of years of 500 cars? We're up to 40k cars.



I'm obviously extrapolating and making many assumptions, but then again, so are they. Their target was 1/3rd of cars to go to the US... so out of 40k cars, <15k will end up in US over the next 6+ years. I like that. As much as I want Lotus to succeed, I think they'll shoot themselves in the foot if they overbuild the car and exceed demand. Part of the desire is that it's sexy, but different and will be rare. People also want what they can't have. As soon as it's commonplace (if that'll be possible) then the cross-shopping back to Porsche will kick into higher gear. That is to say.... I hope they don't just add more shifts and more factories and whatever. The demand needs to always be way higher than supply for a luxury brand.

I placed a order and deposit in May 2021 and was #2 for my dealer....I was quoted November for delivery. Not sure where you are getting September from.

 

[LotusB]

I placed a order and deposit in May 2021 and was #2 for my dealer....I was quoted November for delivery. Not sure where you are getting September from.

I'm #1 on the list with my dealer and my car is getting shipped with the dealer car as part of the first shipment. When we placed our orders (provided the specs to Lotus), I was told August build/September delivery. From reading the forum, in hind-sight, that seems optimistic, but that was the information he had at the time.

Information from Lotus is lacking or murky at best, so again, that was the info my dealer received from Lotus a few months ago. I totally expect the dates to slide back, just like the UK dates have. Optimistic but realistic

 

[DerTheDer]

I'm #1 on the list with my dealer and my car is getting shipped with the dealer car as part of the first shipment. When we placed our orders (provided the specs to Lotus), I was told August build/September delivery. From reading the forum, in hind-sight, that seems optimistic, but that was the information he had at the time.

Information from Lotus is lacking or murky at best, so again, that was the info my dealer received from Lotus a few months ago. I totally expect the dates to slide back, just like the UK dates have. Optimistic but realistic

That may have been a tad bit optimistic, however It was probably true a year or so ago. But now I am expecting early 2023. Will be happy with November OR September. Last I talked to my dealer a few weeks ago was still November timeframe.

 

[nosirrahx]

That may have been a tad bit optimistic, however It was probably true a year or so ago. But now I am expecting early 2023. Will be happy with November OR September. Last I talked to my dealer a few weeks ago was still November timeframe.

I am expecting to get mine after the snow flies so there is no difference between late November and spring of 2023. It is what it is, glad I have a modified Evora 400 to keep me entertained.