Throwing codes

[Kimmax]

Well here we go again. Made it about 800km.
O2 Bank 2 (the third one total now) left us today.

Live data shows it’s voltage stuck. P223D is being reported again. No O2 related codes yet, but last time they only showed up at a later time too.

HOWEVER I come with good news - well maybe:
Im pretty certain it’s water related, since it happened again only after giving the car a wash.

I thought I recalled it happening the first time after a wash, but wasn’t sure.

Second time it definitely was after a wash.

I put off washing the car after the last fix up until today (And that’s a hard time for any DV owner), because the thought stayed with me and I wanted to confirm. Here we are. Washed -> code a few minutes later.

It might be a big coincidence but I hardly believe that.

Also got the parking brake service alert, but I’m not 100% certain that’s also related to the above. Both times they happened I was stationary for a few minutes, while in the car. Ignition off. After some time the display turns off and turning the power on then seems to trigger the alert - I’ll try to reproduce that tomorrow.

 

[Kimmax]

@EFE any chance you washed the car shortly before your sensor went boom?

For reference I’m washing in a self service booth (pressure washer) with good distance to the car and obviously not pointing it directly into any openings. Not that they should be able to handle water through obvious openings anyway, but we’re talking Lotus here 😂

 

[Porter]

Something systemic is going on with these. Looking back through the thread to the very first post, this combination of codes being set is just too many different unrelated things at once to be actual sensor or part failures.

Based on my experience, I would suggest the following Wild Ass Guesses:

• some sort of lifting ground that skews all of the voltage values from the ECU's perspective
• some kind of voltage stability problem as a result of a battery issue or lack of capacitance somewhere in the system
• some weird short or voltage haywire condition as a result of water getting into a wiring harness/loom where it shouldn't be

Or maybe even a combination of the above?

 

[Porter]

Well here we go again. Made it about 800km.
O2 Bank 2 (the third one total now) left us today.

Live data shows it’s voltage stuck. P223D is being reported again. No O2 related codes yet, but last time they only showed up at a later time too.

HOWEVER I come with good news - well maybe:
Im pretty certain it’s water related, since it happened again only after giving the car a wash.

I thought I recalled it happening the first time after a wash, but wasn’t sure.

Second time it definitely was after a wash.

I put off washing the car after the last fix up until today (And that’s a hard time for any DV owner), because the thought stayed with me and I wanted to confirm. Here we are. Washed -> code a few minutes later.

It might be a big coincidence but I hardly believe that.

Also got the parking brake service alert, but I’m not 100% certain that’s also related to the above. Both times they happened I was stationary for a few minutes, while in the car. Ignition off. After some time the display turns off and turning the power on then seems to trigger the alert - I’ll try to reproduce that tomorrow.

I wonder whether there might be cause here to test a connector water intrusion remedy. Heat shrink would work in a few cases, but most of the connectors are too big. There are a number of products for this in the market that are like a wrap adhesive, and are removable. Think Flex Seal, but for wrapping around wiring connectors in situations where you can't always fit or install heat shrink.

Can't hurt to try, and is less messy and permanent than filling all the factory loom connectors with silicone caulk, which is what the old school on-the-cheap rally guys do. 🤣 The newfangled rich rally guys do all-milspec loom connections and pay $$ for it.

 

[Kimmax]

The wash ends with a deionized water rinse (spot-free drying) which is a poor conductor. Whatever that could mean.
Fact it’s permanently damaging the sensor, since it stay’s dead, far after drying time

 

[Porter]

The wash ends with a deionized water rinse (spot-free drying) which is a poor conductor. Whatever that could mean.
Fact it’s permanently damaging the sensor, since it stay’s dead, far after drying time

Quite a few sensors don't take kindly to shorting.

Surely these are modern gasketed waterproof connectors, right? Is it possible that Lotus got a bad (or low QC) batch of wiring harness connections?

 

[Toomanyloti]

Also got the parking brake service alert,

this happened to me after a wash. Parked in garage overnight and it went away.

 

[Eagle7]

this happened to me after a wash. Parked in garage overnight and it went away.

This is interesting. For all the world this sounds like either a ground fault or a short circuit. After washing the car, lift the rear hatch and start looking for ANY signs of water anywhere on the engine, wiring harness, etc. I'd even go so far as to look inside the battery compartment. Check for tight connections, especially for connectors that connect two parts of the wiring together. Make sure the ECU or any electrical unit mounted to the firewall is secure. Check all bolts/mounting hardware and make sure they're tight. Something is causing electrical anomalies on these particular cars, whereas on many others they aren't having these issues.

 

[virtualmacho]

Do these washes defy gravity and clean the underside of the car, or are they basically a top-to-bottom wash? When I pressure wash a car, I usually try to clean whatever is reachable underneath the car, inside the wheel arches, through the wheel spokes, etc.

 

[NicolasB]

Thinking wiring harness issue like others have encountered...

 

[Kimmax]

Do these washes defy gravity and clean the underside of the car, or are they basically a top-to-bottom wash? When I pressure wash a car, I usually try to clean whatever is reachable underneath the car, inside the wheel arches, through the wheel spokes, etc.

Top to bottom, I was especially careful this time. Only went a bit sideways to reach under the doors bottom "edge".

I’ll be dropping my car off in the next days when I’m gone for a bit anyways, so they can go through it again.

 

[EFE]

@EFE any chance you washed the car shortly before your sensor went boom?

For reference I’m washing in a self service booth (pressure washer) with good distance to the car and obviously not pointing it directly into any openings. Not that they should be able to handle water through obvious openings anyway, but we’re talking Lotus here 😂

You could be on to something here. Thinking back my engine warning lights have each been after a wash. I don’t think the sensor fails straight away. I think it starts with a false reading with lean burn bank 2 calling for more fuel and the over fuelling kills the sensor. The state of the sensor when it finally dies is sooty, clogged and black.

 

[EFE]

You could be on to something here. Thinking back my engine warning lights have each been after a wash. I don’t think the sensor fails straight away. I think it starts with a false reading with lean burn bank 2 calling for more fuel and the over fuelling kills the sensor. The state of the sensor when it finally dies is sooty, clogged and black.

It’s not every time I wash it and I did wash the car when I was in Switzerland in a self service booth and didn’t have a problem afterwards. Although it was a hot dry day and it was driven hard afterwards rather than a short drive and going into the garage overnight.

 

[virtualmacho]

Top to bottom, I was especially careful this time. Only went a bit sideways to reach under the doors bottom "edge".

So it may not be water directly on the hot wires, but more like water seeping between the aluminum tubs and their grounding points causing incorrect or fluctuating readings, resulting in the ECU flooding the engine? Hope Lotus comes out with a simple but lasting fix (before my car hits the production line!)

 

[Kimmax]

So it may not be water directly on the hot wires, but more like water seeping between the aluminum tubs and their grounding points causing incorrect or fluctuating readings, resulting in the ECU flooding the engine? Hope Lotus comes out with a simple but lasting fix (before my car hits the production line!)

I think let's say a short just destroys the sensor. Electronics behave erratically once operated outside of specification (Say overvoltage). This time it’s stuck at 0.15V and does nothing, fuel trim for that bank being 0%. Last time it jumped like crazy resulting in fuel trims between -30% and +30% in fractions of a second, resulting in the engine being completely out of balance

 

[Porter]

Last time it jumped like crazy resulting in fuel trims between -30% and +30% in fractions of a second, resulting in the engine being completely out of balance

That's hysteresis. How interesting. Usually a ground float will cause the value to wander, not to spike values to limits.

This sounds more like the actual connector for the sensor is shorting out between the hot wire, the signal wire, and ground. Or a similar effect is happening somewhere in the loom.

 

[Eagle7]

That's hysteresis. How interesting. Usually a ground float will cause the value to wander, not to spike values to limits.

This sounds more like the actual connector for the sensor is shorting out between the hot wire, the signal wire, and ground. Or a similar effect is happening somewhere in the loom.

If a drip of water is running down a cable, or section of the harness into a connector, that would cause issues until it evaporated. If it happens often enough, oxidation and corrosion will begin to form.

It would be worthwhile to look for a connector on a cable or part of the harness, where the receiving end is pointing upward which would enable moisture to run down into it. Ideally connectors should be installed so the receiving end is pointing downward, so water runs over and away from it instead of into it, but you never know. Worth taking a look at.

 

[Hobiedick]

@EFE any chance you washed the car shortly before your sensor went boom?

For reference I’m washing in a self service booth (pressure washer) with good distance to the car and obviously not pointing it directly into any openings. Not that they should be able to handle water through obvious openings anyway, but we’re talking Lotus here 😂

Have you read the manual re washing!!!! "
Handwashing
Lotus recommends that your vehicle is only washed by hand.
CAUTION: Automatic car washers and jet washers may damage the paint finish. Damage caused by using them will not be covered under the terms of the vehicle warranty. Oooooooops

 

[DJS]

Hosepipe ban where I am so very careful hand washing it is, I've also bought one of those bigboi blow dryers which I must say is a very impressive non touch car dry. I must admit I do very carefully touch the car up with a waffle towel to finish some of the really hard to reach areas.

Wont be going anywhere near it with a pressure washer.

 

[Hobiedick]

Hosepipe ban where I am so very careful hand washing it is, I've also bought one of those bigboi blow dryers which I must say is a very impressive non touch car dry. I must admit I do very carefully touch the car up with a waffle towel to finish some of the really hard to reach areas.

Wont be going anywhere near it with a pressure washer.

I have one of the 0 ppm water filters which means you do not need to dry the car, the pure water does not leave any stains so it makes washing a car much easier.