Paint blistering issue update

[Honcho]

It went quicker than I anticipated actually. I went with Woodcote & Copse (Lotus Silverstone) in case they're within range of you.

I would call up whomever you contacted. My patience would've run out long ago, and I'd have pestered for an update.

It took 3 weeks for both doors to arrive, after the paint blistering was confirmed during a service check. Arranged a date to drop off the car. Then took 3-4 weeks for doors to be replaced etc.

Was that recently?

 

[Lotustoronto]

Do you believe this is the reason that all other Lotus panels are blistering as well? That all the panels with this issue are from a manufacturing repair?

I have mentioned this before - IMO it seemed that most paint blistering issues were on the top of the door panels - the vast majority noted on the forum at least. I always thought it was possibly due to some type of mishandling or how it was stored from the manufacturer / what was used to hold the panels while it was curing from primer or paint etc.? It's very possible that the other less known spots for blistering (rear trunk lid as an example) could have been from an improper repair. In the end, only Lotus knows the correct answer and how it was addressed.

 

[PS1_Emira]

Was that recently?

Yes it was this year. Service was July - when I reported the paint blistering.

 

[3PFan]

Do you believe this is the reason that all other Lotus panels are blistering as well? That all the panels with this issue are from a manufacturing repair?

I couldn't tell you -- we weren't in the factory, we have no first hand knowledge of what the root cause is, or what actions were taken, only speculation.

 

[geoffbland]

I have mentioned this before - IMO it seemed that most paint blistering issues were on the top of the door panels - the vast majority noted on the forum at least. I always thought it was possibly due to some type of mishandling or how it was stored from the manufacturer / what was used to hold the panels while it was curing from primer or paint etc.? It's very possible that the other less known spots for blistering (rear trunk lid as an example) could have been from an improper repair. In the end, only Lotus knows the correct answer and how it was addressed.

Mines blistering is not on the top of the doors nor anywhere that you could sensibly hold the door panel for storage or priming/painting.
The other Emira I've seen that had blistering really bad on both doors and rear quarter was blistering in different places but again nowhere near where I could image it would be held for priming/painting/storage.
Neither of these cars have had any type of body work or repair.

If the problem could be fixed just by a quick sand down and repaint it would be very strange for Lotus to be fully replacing the doors on affected cars under warranty. The affected doors are also destroyed I've been told and not refurbished and reused. Perhaps if the sanding down was very thorough and most of the resin replaced then possibly you might be OK?

It's worth reading back what was said on this forum about the door situation by Tillets, these guys are very experienced with composites not just carbon fibre.

 

[Sanguineous]

Was wondering if anybody that had both paint blistering AND PPF over it...
Like how does it manifest under PPF?
Could my PPF prevent the blistering or simply hide it and I would see it the day I remove the PPF (Which would be after warranty..)

 

[geoffbland]

Was wondering if anybody that had both paint blistering AND PPF over it...
Like how does it manifest under PPF?
Could my PPF prevent the blistering or simply hide it and I would see it the day I remove the PPF (Which would be after warranty..)

Yes, it's been reported several times on the forum see all the posts about PPF being replaced also under the warranty with the replacement doors. Mine has PPF and blistering under the PPF.

 

[3PFan]

Was wondering if anybody that had both paint blistering AND PPF over it...
Like how does it manifest under PPF?
Could my PPF prevent the blistering or simply hide it and I would see it the day I remove the PPF (Which would be after warranty..)

My car had full PPF - the blistering showed up at 5k miles -- many months after PPF.

 

[Speedy Emira]

Hello,

I wanted to get an update on a thread from some time ago regarding the well known paint blistering problem that affects some cars.

My car is ~2.5 years old and coming to the end of its warranty period. So far it has not been affected. Whether it's coincidence or not, it has been stored inside its whole life.

Talking to the local authorised Lotus service centre dealer today they said that this was continuing to be an issue with many cars, although there was no identifiable pattern with age, year etc.

My concern is that as the car comes out of warranty next year, if it is affected, it may end up costing thousands to put right, at my expense. They gave an idea of costs:

• Doors (each) £900 - £1800 total
• Paintwork (each) £2000 - £4000 total
• TOTAL: ~£5800 plus VAT @ 20%

These do seem high, especially the paint, but even if they are a slight overestimate it's a big financial hit. They alluded to the fact that some early cars may be covered for 5 years under the original warranty, but 3 years was now the norm. I am trying to find out what the situation is with my car from Lotus Customer services. There is also currently no official 'extended warranty' available - I am chasing Lotus on this separately.

With these costs it's a big question on the whole ownership proposition going forwards. Would I be prepared to pay for this work, or would I be better to sell the car and move onto something different?

I am keen to hear of other people's experiences. Thank you.

Park it outside for the next few months and see if the blisters appear. I can't believe they won't cover this after the warranty if it is a poor production issue.

 

[Beachbum]

Park it outside for the next few months and see if the blisters appear. I can't believe they won't cover this after the warranty if it is a poor production issue.

Are you new to lotus
In all seriousness, the fact that they reduced the paint warranty from 5yrs to 3yrs, said the 5yr text was an error and was only ever supposed to be 3yrs, shows how likely Lotus are to fight any claim out of warranty.............. The real Q will be, will it be 3yrs or 5yrs for the Pre-August 2024 cars.

 

[Steve Tillett]

Was wondering if anybody that had both paint blistering AND PPF over it...
Like how does it manifest under PPF?
Could my PPF prevent the blistering or simply hide it and I would see it the day I remove the PPF (Which would be after warranty..)

PPF will not make any difference. If they compression mould the composite leaving air in there, the panels are cured inside the tool and trap the air under pressure. It stands to reason that they will find their way out over time. This is why repair is pointless, as it is very likely that there are other bubbles that have not worked their way out yet, but will as the doors heat up and cool down. A new air free door is the only solution.

 

[3PFan]

PPF will not make any difference. If they compression mould the composite leaving air in there, the panels are cured inside the tool and trap the air under pressure. It stands to reason that they will find their way out over time. This is why repair is pointless, as it is very likely that there are other bubbles that have not worked their way out yet, but

 

[Honcho]

PPF will not make any difference. If they compression mould the composite leaving air in there, the panels are cured inside the tool and trap the air under pressure. It stands to reason that they will find their way out over time. This is why repair is pointless, as it is very likely that there are other bubbles that have not worked their way out yet, but will as the doors heat up and cool down. A new air free door is the only solution.

Probably more likely to appear when left out in the sun then when air inside increases in pressure and expands.

 

[SimonT]

I was waiting at the dealers on Thursday while the car was being serviced and spoke to a woman whose car was being booked in for a rear quarter panel, the service manager informed her they were now sanding, treating and repainting panels as opposed to replacing.

Going forward I think this will be the norm and anyone out of warranty (in the UK) will either pay for a repair at a paintshop or go through the Small Claims process and highlight the 5 yr warranty that was advertised for 3.5 years.

 

[geoffbland]

I guess we'll test your theory --- I'd say if the issue is in an isolated area on the door, as most are,

Whilst I have a few visible blisters in one patch on my door, when you look carefully and at the right angle so the light catches it, the whole front of side of the door - I'd say around 30% of the whole door area has a kind of flattened warty appearance, I assume this will eventually become blisters too? This is just on the drivers door - passenger door is flawless. What is weird is this all appeared so suddenly. This was after a few hot days, the drivers door is normally in the sun where I park, passenger door is in the shade.
I am expecting to need to use the UK small claims court if the problem happens elsewhere as my Emira is now 3 years old - or if it reoccurs on the replaced drivers door. Failing that I plan to speak to a firm that did great fibreglass repairs on my Elise and see if the doors can be completely reskinned.

 

[freefall_junkie]

I was waiting at the dealers on Thursday while the car was being serviced and spoke to a woman whose car was being booked in for a rear quarter panel, the service manager informed her they were now sanding, treating and repainting panels as opposed to replacing.

This really smacks of desperation by Lotus due to their crippling warranty costs. Everything we understand about this issue points to it being highly likely that the blisters will reoccurr if this is now the approach. There are going to be a lot of very unhappy Emira owners in the next year with this type of shoddy repair, and no doubt with some having to get into a legal battle with Lotus over the 5 year warranty. Last days of Rome/Hethel.

On a positive note, the first aftermarket company to come up with a good set of replacement doors will surely do very well out of it.

 

[SimonT]

This really smacks of desperation by Lotus due to their crippling warranty costs. Everything we understand about this issue points to it being highly likely that the blisters will reoccurr if this is now the approach. There are going to be a lot of very unhappy Emira owners in the next year with this type of shoddy repair, and no doubt with some having to get into a legal battle with Lotus over the 5 year warranty. Last days of Rome/Hethel.

On a positive note, the first aftermarket company to come up with a good set of replacement doors will surely do very well out of it.

They will claim all costs from the panel manufacturer, so not financially crippling for them.

 

[freefall_junkie]

They will claim all costs from the panel manufacturer, so not financially crippling for them.

Well, none of us know what the terms of the contract with the supplier are, but warranty claims generally are a very significant cost for car manufacturers, especially low volume ones, so I'd be surprised if this isn't hurting Lotus. When Michael Leiters took over as CEO at McLaren one of his key stated aims was to improve quality and reduce their warranty claims. Mclaren still seem to be haemorrhaging money overall but at least the cars are better built. Warranty costs were also cited as a significant factor in the sad demise of TVR all those years ago.

 

[SimonT]

Well, none of us know what the terms of the contract with the supplier are, but warranty claims generally are a very significant cost for car manufacturers, especially low volume ones, so I'd be surprised if this isn't hurting Lotus. When Michael Leiters took over as CEO at McLaren one of his key stated aims was to improve quality and reduce their warranty claims. Mclaren still seem to be haemorrhaging money overall but at least the cars are better built. Warranty costs were also cited as a significant factor in the sad demise of TVR all those years ago.

Anyone supplying faulty products is responsible for the financial outlay in correcting the problem. TVR and McClaren had various issues not necessarily limited to a single component. Lotus problems, it appears, centre around specific supplied parts. Components such as the wiper motors and HVAC resistors will come from the parent company, body panels are from a Japanese owned company.

Will there be a cost to Lotus from supplying new parts to dealers and paying labour costs, initially yes but that will be recouped eventually from the supplier. If Lotus do not have such provisions in their contracts then those responsible for the contracts should be booted out pronto and would highlight the poor management Lotus clearly had.

Now that Porsche have stated the successor to the Cayman will be a petrol flat six with 450+ bhp Lotys are no doubt done for anyway.

 

[ADC]

I was waiting at the dealers on Thursday while the car was being serviced and spoke to a woman whose car was being booked in for a rear quarter panel, the service manager informed her they were now sanding, treating and repainting panels as opposed to replacing.

Going forward I think this will be the norm and anyone out of warranty (in the UK) will either pay for a repair at a paintshop or go through the Small Claims process and highlight the 5 yr warranty that was advertised for 3.5 years.

FWIW, having had a lengthy chat with the guys who were doing the repairs when I was dropping off (one of my rear quarters also needed doing), my information and experience is that sand / bake / repaint has always been the case for rear quarter panels. Replacement is still the case for doors and rear hatch.