Let's talk about the Emira's seats...

[Billyidoliser]

11th July. (Early AM)

26th for me, the wait is excruciating!😬

 

[Justcallmemac]

I wonder if @TomE can reach out to Lotus and get a definitive answer here because the concerns about seat height, the range of any adjustability, and the driving position available, are very genuine and understandable ones.

Production has started, things may have changed since the Prototype and so surely information is available, whether good or bad, from which a more informed decision can be made.

 

[freefall_junkie]

Well I just had a web chat with the ever helpful Jamie from customer services, and he advised that the information they have from the factory is still that the seats will be mounted 20mm lower than the roadshow car . He also said they will soon be announcing test drive events for customers starting around May time, although until the dates are announced it is not clear whether those with a June delivery slot will have to make the final financial commitment before this.

Test drive would be great, but all I really want is a chance to sit in an Emira with production spec seats before finally committing to spend £80k . It isn't just the mounting height, but also the revised padding which could make a big difference.

 

[Justcallmemac]

Well I just had a web chat with the ever helpful Jamie from customer services, and he advised that the information they have from the factory is still that the seats will be mounted 20mm lower than the roadshow car . He also said they will soon be announcing test drive events for customers starting around May time, although until the dates are announced it is not clear whether those with a June delivery slot will have to make the final financial commitment before this.

Test drive would be great, but all I really want is a chance to sit in an Emira with production spec seats before finally committing to spend £80k . It isn't just the mounting height, but also the revised padding which could make a big difference.

The very same Jamie told me 10mm.

It's all kinda subjective anyway because, as you say, factors like padding materials will influence things, regardless of mounting height. Gonna need to sit in one and play around with the adjustability, including recline, to know for sure.

 

[FederGigant]

As far as I know, the padding in the show cars was quite hard and will get softer in the production cars. This alone can give you another cm. However I wouldn't mind if can't try the seats before committing. For me it's clear that we can sell our early cars without loosing money, probably even with making some profit if we want to, if we don't like them.

 

[freefall_junkie]

The very same Jamie told me 10mm.

It's all kinda subjective anyway because, as you say, factors like padding materials will influence things, regardless of mounting height. Gonna need to sit in one and play around with the adjustability, including recline, to know for sure.

Hmm - well that is a bit odd! 10mm, 20mm, more or less padding, softer or firmer padding, who knows? We are just going to have to keep our finger crossed. Hopefully the reviews of the production spec car next month will shed some light on this.

 

[TomE]

I'll see what I can find out via my contacts. Can I also suggest @Justcallmemac and @freefall_junkie you both send emails to Lotus Customer Care saying you've been given contradictory info over the phone compared to each other. Ask LCC to get a clear answer in writing from Engineering and email that to you.

I do know the seat padding isn't as solid on the production seats and so you do sink further into them than the very firm ones in the blue roadshow car. That may give another 10mm or so.

 

[Porter]

Some interesting commentary in the CAR magazine article by James Taylor, released today:

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Some interesting commentary in the CAR magazine article by James Taylor, released today:

View attachment 3679

I would like to know the differences between left and right.

 

[Tonyshepp]

I believe the video is referring to the base model “4-way” seats as opposed to the FE “12-way” seats. Of course, there’s no way to confirm this, as Lotus continues to do their best Helen Keller impression.

The lumbar button was missing so perhaps you are right it’s the base seats.

 

[Porter]

As a person who is only 6ft tall but has a very long torso for my height, this set of developments is concerning. If the production seat ends up actually being 20mm higher than originally planned/claimed it may throw a wrench (spanner) into my plans. The grey demonstrator car was not great in terms of body-to-viewport seating position. It was right at the limit of functional acceptability at the lowest seat settings, and definitely not in a range that I would characterize as "good". 20mm lower would just eke into "good", and if they haven't figured out how to follow through on that promise it will be a genuine problem.

Lotus is a British car, so any product from them I expect to have Northern European body type capability, including the Dutch, the Danes, and the Swedes. Tall lanky people. Historically this has been an absolute design requirement, and the previous cars were famously comfortable for tall folk. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be so now. Gavan Kershaw is a big person, surely he would demand that the engineering accommodate drivers of his size. Surely...?

 

[eclat2emira]

Some interesting commentary in the CAR magazine article by James Taylor, released today:

View attachment 3679

Nicely done, i saw that and thought a few folks on here would find that helpful.

 

[Lots_Of_Trouble]

Well I just had a web chat with the ever helpful Jamie from customer services, and he advised that the information they have from the factory is still that the seats will be mounted 20mm lower than the roadshow car . He also said they will soon be announcing test drive events for customers starting around May time, although until the dates are announced it is not clear whether those with a June delivery slot will have to make the final financial commitment before this.

Test drive would be great, but all I really want is a chance to sit in an Emira with production spec seats before finally committing to spend £80k . It isn't just the mounting height, but also the revised padding which could make a big difference.

This is my concern too.

They f'd us June delivery customers over first by locking in spec before the new configurator out,now I'm concerned we might have to commit to buying (no deposit refund) before testing the car...

 

[andrew6382]

Well I just had a web chat with the ever helpful Jamie from customer services, and he advised that the information they have from the factory is still that the seats will be mounted 20mm lower than the roadshow car . He also said they will soon be announcing test drive events for customers starting around May time, although until the dates are announced it is not clear whether those with a June delivery slot will have to make the final financial commitment before this.

Test drive would be great, but all I really want is a chance to sit in an Emira with production spec seats before finally committing to spend £80k . It isn't just the mounting height, but also the revised padding which could make a big difference.

You might also want to check about the test drive road show..... ? been told less likely to happen.... but as we are all learning things change

 

[Porter]

It irks me that Lotus still hasn't figured this seat thing out, or at least they hadn't as recently as a month ago (Feb 7th-ish) when these journalists drove the VP car. Lotus were talking about this "20mm too high" business in July of last year as a direct response to questions about the seating, and made direct statements that the seats seen in the demo vehicle would change dramatically before production, and yet here we are in March of the following year and it's still somehow an insurmountable issue? It wasn't random marketing people, Matt Windle and Gavan Kershaw both were on record making a note of it. The seats shown in the preview-drive VP car and in the recent factory floor photos look more or less identical to what they showed at Goodwood and at the roadshows, and people with Lotus badges on their shirts are now saying "the seats could have been 20mm lower if not for the power seat mechanism" which is just an absurdity to me. Of course it has a power seat mechanism. That was a given back in July of last year when they first fielded negative feedback about the issue. How could that not be a key project milestone that had to be solved definitively with a supplier by some date back in late summer or autumn of 2021?

I'm not sure why they couldn't just buy seats from whoever BMW uses for their Sport 14-ways? I believe they're sourced from either Lear or Magna. I don't mean the expensive shell-back M seats, I mean the regular Sport ones they have as an option in the F-chassis cars since 2011. They are fantastic. Stellar comfort for long drives, plenty of bolstering, great support, and sit quite low. Super low in fact, compared to most "sedan" seats. Plenty of opportunity for OE customization of style, shape, etc to match the desired styling, while retaining key ergonomics.

BMW option Sport seats in black dakota leather with red stitching/piping (F30/F31 3-series):

Same thing in Coral Red dakota leather:

I mean, there are a million other options out there too. Why not optional Recaros? A set of Recaro Speed V or Recaro Expert (or some OE variant to match the Emira style) would have done the job quite nicely as well, and are legendary for support and comfort. Manual adjustment is fine! It's a driver's car.

I get that they wanted electric pushbutton operation for convenience, but it's also a sports car. At least give people an option for a proper sport seat. Charge $1,000 extra, or whatever. It would be worth it to a ton of buyers, particularly those who aren't squarely in the "daily driver" category that Lotus imagines they are going to be conquering with this car. I still can't wrap my mind around that. Sure, there will be enthusiasts who will also drive these daily, but the will almost always be enthusiasts first. People aren't going to trip over their shoes and accidentally buy one of these while they were on their way to the Mercedes dealer to buy a GLC crossover.

Fingers crossed that they make an option seat in future that early adopters can retrofit later, if needed. It will be an unnecessary frustration for a ton of us if the standard seat is sub-par. Seats can make or break an owner's long-term relationship with a car, and I intend to make this a 30+ year automotive romance if I'm able.

 

[FederGigant]

I would say if they told us that the seats will be lowered by 20mm back in July '21 and still they aren't lowered by February '22, then they won't be lowered at all. How should they have known that they can lower them in the first place, when it hasn't happened even half a year later? They either made those 20mm up, or their supplier failed on making it possible. However we can prepare for seats that are the same height as in the mule. Maybe with softer bolstering which will gain a few mm, but not more than that.

 

[NicolasB]

It irks me that Lotus still hasn't figured this seat thing out, or at least they hadn't as recently as a month ago (Feb 7th-ish) when these journalists drove the VP car. Lotus were talking about this "20mm too high" business in July of last year as a direct response to questions about the seating, and made direct statements that the seats seen in the demo vehicle would change dramatically before production, and yet here we are in March of the following year and it's still somehow an insurmountable issue? It wasn't random marketing people, Matt Windle and Gavan Kershaw both were on record making a note of it. The seats shown in the preview-drive VP car and in the recent factory floor photos look more or less identical to what they showed at Goodwood and at the roadshows, and people with Lotus badges on their shirts are now saying "the seats could have been 20mm lower if not for the power seat mechanism" which is just an absurdity to me. Of course it has a power seat mechanism. That was a given back in July of last year when they first fielded negative feedback about the issue. How could that not be a key project milestone that had to be solved definitively with a supplier by some date back in late summer or autumn of 2021?

I'm not sure why they couldn't just buy seats from whoever BMW uses for their Sport 14-ways? I believe they're sourced from either Lear or Magna. I don't mean the expensive shell-back M seats, I mean the regular Sport ones they have as an option in the F-chassis cars since 2011. They are fantastic. Stellar comfort for long drives, plenty of bolstering, great support, and sit quite low. Super low in fact, compared to most "sedan" seats. Plenty of opportunity for OE customization of style, shape, etc to match the desired styling, while retaining key ergonomics.

BMW option Sport seats in black dakota leather with red stitching/piping (F30/F31 3-series):
View attachment 3725
Same thing in Coral Red dakota leather:
View attachment 3726

I mean, there are a million other options out there too. Why not optional Recaros? A set of Recaro Speed V or Recaro Expert (or some OE variant to match the Emira style) would have done the job quite nicely as well, and are legendary for support and comfort. Manual adjustment is fine! It's a driver's car.

View attachment 3727View attachment 3728

I get that they wanted electric pushbutton operation for convenience, but it's also a sports car. At least give people an option for a proper sport seat. Charge $1,000 extra, or whatever. It would be worth it to a ton of buyers, particularly those who aren't squarely in the "daily driver" category that Lotus imagines they are going to be conquering with this car. I still can't wrap my mind around that. Sure, there will be enthusiasts who will also drive these daily, but the will almost always be enthusiasts first. People aren't going to trip over their shoes and accidentally buy one of these while they were on their way to the Mercedes dealer to buy a GLC crossover.

Fingers crossed that they make an option seat in future that early adopters can retrofit later, if needed. It will be an unnecessary frustration for a ton of us if the standard seat is sub-par. Seats can make or break an owner's long-term relationship with a car, and I intend to make this a 30+ year automotive romance if I'm able.

Copy that. Lotus, do you copy?

 

[Porter]

I'll just go ahead and say it.. if it's great seats that we all want, they should have gone back to the Volvo parts bin and grabbed their seats. Best in the business. I had a V60 Polestar.. seats felt like they were custom molded to my body. Adjustable, supportive, supple yet held in aggressive driving. They certainly wouldn't have been as supportive as some of the sportier seats you are all referencing.. but damn they are comfortable. I think Volvo should just sell their seats to other car manufacturers. I'd by a honda or a camry if it came with upgraded "Volvo seats". They're literally that good.

Only problem is that I bet they weigh a ton.

[Slight edit/update] - The backseats of my Volvo V60 were more comfortable than the seats in my current E450. Like.. seriously.

I believe most of Volvo's seats are made by Lear. I know they were their exclusive supplier from the early 1990s through the late 2000s, and are still making seats for at least some Volvo models. No idea what the mix looks like today though. Since the Geely acquisition they may have manufacturing resources for seating internal to the Geely group that they are leveraging in some way.

Hell, to be honest that might also be the reason why Lotus is having such a time getting the Emira seat right. Though it didn't sound like they were particularly choice-constrained by the parent company based on the commentary Matt Windle has given in interviews. So who knows? 🤷‍♂️

 

[New to Lotus]

Still worries me if it's not an improvement on the evora or the show car I will not want the car but, I don't think I will get to sit in or drive a car till I have paid the full balance!!!!!

 

[Eagle7]

This has to be the difference of having your own department in-house and being able to quickly try things, versus making a request to an outside company and waiting to see what they come up with. In the future, they may want to bring back the in-house setup strictly for design and testing, then hand that result over to the outside company for production.

I'm not worried about it. Gavan is a stickler for performance detail, and if he's not comfortable in the seat, he's not going to approve it, which is probably why they're still testing variations.