I'm out - the cancellations thread

[Leonard]

I’m in a bit of a spot regarding my reservation. Technically being late to the party, not placing reservation until March, an FE was always off the table but I was given a high degree of confidence I would be able to place an order for a Base car in early to mid 2023 so I placed my reservation with Naples.

That’s where things started to go a bit off the rails. I have never been given a firm, “you are number xxx on the list”. It’s always, “your in the 170ish range.”. The excuse being each salesman only has visibility to their reservation book. I didn’t press it considering a lot will change between March 2022 and mid 2023 when I would be expecting to actually place my order.

Fast forward a few months and now I’m faced with a bit of a conundrum. The market for my current ride, a 2021 718 Spyder has gone nuts. I can place it on consignment at my Porsche dealer and they are confident I can net at least a $30,000 profit over what I paid for it back in Feb 2021. I figured I wouldn’t need to cross this bridge until next year but how long will the Porsche market last? Kind of a bird in the hand thing…..

The conundrum is I’m losing faith that my dealer is being forthcoming and I will see a car in the timeframe they sucked me into the deal with. Until the Emira hit the scene I was content that the Spyder was my end game sports car (I’m old ). I typically keep my modern Porsches for at least 5 - 7 years and I don’t see anything better on the horizon in the sub $150k space. So, I sell what is arguably one of the best mid engine ICE sports cars ever built on the hope I can replace it with a suitable ICE vehicle for less than a king’s ransom. Decisions decisions…….

Tricky. I'd be happy with the Spyder til end of days.
I guess either sell now and bank the money whilst you find out what's going on with the Emira. Or keep and maybe lose a few k but still be way over list in 12 months. Even if you sell you can probably buy back into a Spyder for same money or less next year

 

[dgrace]

Tricky. I'd be happy with the Spyder til end of days.
I guess either sell now and bank the money whilst you find out what's going on with the Emira. Or keep and maybe lose a few k but still be way over list in 12 months. Even if you sell you can probably buy back into a Spyder for same money or less next year

Definitely keep the 718 lest you end up with no fun car for all of 2023. 30k is nice, but not worth wasting a year of your life.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I’m in a bit of a spot regarding my reservation. Technically being late to the party, not placing reservation until March, an FE was always off the table but I was given a high degree of confidence I would be able to place an order for a Base car in early to mid 2023 so I placed my reservation with Naples.

That’s where things started to go a bit off the rails. I have never been given a firm, “you are number xxx on the list”. It’s always, “your in the 170ish range.”. The excuse being each salesman only has visibility to their reservation book. I didn’t press it considering a lot will change between March 2022 and mid 2023 when I would be expecting to actually place my order.

Fast forward a few months and now I’m faced with a bit of a conundrum. The market for my current ride, a 2021 718 Spyder has gone nuts. I can place it on consignment at my Porsche dealer and they are confident I can net at least a $30,000 profit over what I paid for it back in Feb 2021. I figured I wouldn’t need to cross this bridge until next year but how long will the Porsche market last? Kind of a bird in the hand thing…..

The conundrum is I’m losing faith that my dealer is being forthcoming and I will see a car in the timeframe they sucked me into the deal with. Until the Emira hit the scene I was content that the Spyder was my end game sports car (I’m old ). I typically keep my modern Porsches for at least 5 - 7 years and I don’t see anything better on the horizon in the sub $150k space. So, I sell what is arguably one of the best mid engine ICE sports cars ever built on the hope I can replace it with a suitable ICE vehicle for less than a king’s ransom. Decisions decisions…….

That is one tough choice. Personally the 718 Spyder is a step above the Emira. Mostly due to being a convertible, and almost as beautiful to my eye. Far better than a 718 GTS 4.0. Now - the fact your able to make a profit, which I don't think the Porsche crazy market will last, on the flip side, the Spyder is a bit more special than a regular 911 or 718. So I think those values will hold and perhaps increase again once they no longer make them, which may be fairly soon.

For the Emira... The V6 manual is also not going to be in production for too long. I personally think a V6 manual in the US market will be sold out by end of this year maybe Q1 2023. I can bet you are not the only Porsche owner thinking the exact same thing. Emira looks a bit more special and having driven a few 718 GT4's, the long gearing does make a difference on the road as far as a fun visceral ride is concerned. A little surprised with all the Emira vs cayman 4.0 reviews, nobody mentioned the gearing in the Porsche. If it was any other cayman or Boxster, I would say the Emira will be the more special, rare, fun car and no question in my mind where my money would go.

718 Spyder vs Emira - side by side and same price - I would have a hard time choosing, but ultimately I think the Spyder would win. If your talking about 40K extra in your pocket and the Emira.... Well then.... that is where I would flip a coin. ( I would at least keep the Spyder until you can test drive the Emira )

 

[Leonard]

That is one tough choice. Personally the 718 Spyder is a step above the Emira. Mostly due to being a convertible, and almost as beautiful to my eye. Far better than a 718 GTS 4.0. Now - the fact your able to make a profit, which I don't think the Porsche crazy market will last, on the flip side, the Spyder is a bit more special than a regular 911 or 718. So I think those values will hold and perhaps increase again once they no longer make them, which may be fairly soon.

For the Emira... The V6 manual is also not going to be in production for too long. I personally think a V6 manual in the US market will be sold out by end of this year maybe Q1 2023. I can bet you are not the only Porsche owner thinking the exact same thing. Emira looks a bit more special and having driven a few 718 GT4's, the long gearing does make a difference on the road as far as a fun visceral ride is concerned. A little surprised with all the Emira vs cayman 4.0 reviews, nobody mentioned the gearing in the Porsche. If it was any other cayman or Boxster, I would say the Emira will be the more special, rare, fun car and no question in my mind where my money would go.

718 Spyder vs Emira - side by side and same price - I would have a hard time choosing, but ultimately I think the Spyder would win. If your talking about 40K extra in your pocket and the Emira.... Well then.... that is where I would flip a coin. ( I would at least keep the Spyder until you can test drive the Emira )

If its an option I'd keep the Spyder and get a i4 auto Emira. Be some driveway along with a sensible and practical 'something'

 

[nosirrahx]

718 Spyder vs Emira - side by side and same price - I would have a hard time choosing, but ultimately I think the Spyder would win. If your talking about 40K extra in your pocket and the Emira.... Well then.... that is where I would flip a coin. ( I would at least keep the Spyder until you can test drive the Emira )

I tell people all the time that if they are torn between a Porsche and a Lotus, just buy the Porsche. The Porsche is objectively a better car but in all the ways it is better, I do not personally have those attributes as a priority. Lotus owners prioritize the unique feeling they get in a Lotus.

I specifically wanted my 400 because it was very old school and analog. I have a gen2 NSX so I wanted something that felt like the exact opposite.

The Emira will probably feel somewhere between a 400/GT and a comparable Porsche but in terms of looks, IMO at least, absolutely crushes Porsche. Porsche is an undeniably attractive brand but certainly puts the actual effort into the quality of the car.

I'm excited to get my Emira and look forward to seeing if it competes with my 400 in terms of fun or feels different enough that I love both for different reasons.

 

[Guest142]

I tell people all the time that if they are torn between a Porsche and a Lotus, just buy the Porsche. The Porsche is objectively a better car but in all the ways it is better, I do not personally have those attributes as a priority. Lotus owners prioritize the unique feeling they get in a Lotus.

I specifically wanted my 400 because it was very old school and analog. I have a gen2 NSX so I wanted something that felt like the exact opposite.

The Emira will probably feel somewhere between a 400/GT and a comparable Porsche but in terms of looks, IMO at least, absolutely crushes Porsche. Porsche is an undeniably attractive brand but certainly puts the actual effort into the quality of the car.

I'm excited to get my Emira and look forward to seeing if it competes with my 400 in terms of fun or feels different enough that I love both for different reasons.

Very informative take.

 

[mjw930]

If its an option I'd keep the Spyder and get a i4 auto Emira. Be some driveway along with a sensible and practical 'something'

I don’t need another daily driver or sports car as I have a number of other “toys” to occupy my leisure time. If I keep the Spyder (PDK) the Emira V6 manual is my preferred option.

We are considering replacing the Spyder and our Model 3 Performance with a Taycan CT 4S leaving a spot in the front garage for the Emira. The Taycan becomes my wife’s DD and I keep my Truck (tow vehicle) as my daily. I can make those numbers work as both the Spyder and Tesla have appreciated from what we paid for them.

Decidedly first world problems.

BTW, this swap is not because I consider the Emira to be better than a Porsche GT product, that would be silly. I’ve had a Porsche in the garage for the last 44 years. For a Porsche guy of modest means to have the opportunity to buy a GT product ordered to spec without any ADM was an opportunity any sane person couldn’t pass up. Selling it is not an impulsive act. And to be completely honest, I have not made the final decision.

 

[Leonard]

I don’t need another daily driver or sports car as I have a number of other “toys” to occupy my leisure time. If I keep the Spyder (PDK) the Emira V6 manual is my preferred option.

We are considering replacing the Spyder and our Model 3 Performance with a Taycan CT 4S leaving a spot in the front garage for the Emira. The Taycan becomes my wife’s DD and I keep my Truck (tow vehicle) as my daily. I can make those numbers work as both the Spyder and Tesla have appreciated from what we paid for them.

Decidedly first world problems.

Seems like a win win 🏆 then no matter what you do! 😁

 

[nosirrahx]

Related to my post above, one of my better buddies just traded his 911 Turbo S for a manual C7. He said that the Porsche was just too good. He said it felt like driving with cheat codes on and getting the car to its limit was just too hard and too infrequent. This is not a unique story either. Of all the car friends that I know have sold a C7 in the past, this is my 4th friend to buy a C7 again. This relates to the whole Porsche VS Lotus debate in that there absolutely is no answer here. Some people are going to love the perfection of a Porsche and some people are going to love the more unique Lotus experience.

 

[Exige2000]

After much deliberation I've notified Lotus to cancel my Emira order. It wasn't a decision taken lightly, but I have no regrets and believe I have made the right choice for me. I was never in the market for the Emira, but when it was launched I got caught up in all the hype and placed an early deposit, but what I was really in the market for at the time was a convertible - specifically a Boxster 718 GTS 4.0, that was my first choice. My thinking is that the Boxster isn't getting any younger and is due to be changed to an all electric model in a couple of years, so I really need to enjoy it now. So I've placed a deposit on a really nice lightly used one. My thinking is to enjoy this for a while and if the Emira lives up to the hype I can always place a deposit again for a new one in a couple years when the waiting lists and part supply issues have died down. If the Emira was available as a soft top I would have placed a deposit for that instead, but it wasn't to be.

If anyone has a Nimbus, V6, FE, manual, tour, red leather and red callipers on order, you may jump up the queue. I was told September build.

Fully understand your decision ,

 

[mjw930]

Related to my post above, one of my better buddies just traded his 911 Turbo S for a manual C7. He said that the Porsche was just too good. He said it felt like driving with cheat codes on and getting the car to its limit was just too hard and too infrequent. This is not a unique story either. Of all the car friends that I know have sold a C7 in the past, this is my 4th friend to buy a C7 again. This relates to the whole Porsche VS Lotus debate in that there absolutely is no answer here. Some people are going to love the perfection of a Porsche and some people are going to love the more unique Lotus experience.

Exactly! I’ve made the comment that the Spyder is simply too good to really generate the levels of excitement on public roads that I have have experienced with lesser cars. That’s usually greeted with confused looks and certainly something I would never had said 20 years ago. My hope is the Lotus will rekindle some of the excitement that’s been engineered out of most modern sports cars.

 

[akhbhaat]

Exactly! I’ve made the comment that the Spyder is simply too good to really generate the levels of excitement on public roads that I have have experienced with lesser cars. That’s usually greeted with confused looks and certainly something I would never had said 20 years ago. My hope is the Lotus will rekindle some of the excitement that’s been engineered out of most modern sports cars.

Same issue I had with my 981 GT4, which was very much in its element on track but disappointing on public roads. Tuned to be civilized when you're well inside the envelope (unlike e.g. a 997 GT3 which is raw and demanding at all speeds; you feel like you're putting in work even when navigating a parking lot), but still carrying an edge that kept tempting you to tap into capability that you cannot safely (much less legally) exploit in that environment. I don't know how else to put it to somebody who hasn't driven a Spyder or GT4 or most modern Porsches, but you have so you get it regardless.

At one point I was at the track upwards of 2-3x per month just to feel like I was getting my money's worth; nevertheless, the best part of the track season where I live is fairly short (4 months at best) so driving it half the year felt more obligatory than exciting. After two years I was bored with it, and don't miss it much. I think if it had been more of an event like the early GT3s are, I'd have felt very differently.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Same issue I had with my 981 GT4, which was very much in its element on track but disappointing on public roads. Tuned to be civilized when you're well inside the envelope (unlike e.g. a 997 GT3 which is raw and demanding at all speeds; you feel like you're putting in work even when navigating a parking lot), but still carrying an edge that kept tempting you to tap into capability that you cannot safely (much less legally) exploit in that environment. I don't know how else to put it to somebody who hasn't driven a Spyder or GT4 or most modern Porsches, but you have so you get it regardless.

At one point I was at the track upwards of 2-3x per month just to feel like I was getting my money's worth; nevertheless, the best part of the track season where I live is fairly short (4 months at best) so driving it half the year felt more obligatory than exciting. After two years I was bored with it, and don't miss it much. I think if it had been more of an event like the early GT3s are, I'd have felt very differently.

I agree with this... I am hoping that the visceral feel on the road is the Emira's high point. To me that feeling has been missing in almost every modern sports car I have driven lately.

 

[Leonard]

I agree with this... I am hoping that the visceral feel on the road is the Emira's high point. To me that feeling has been missing in almost every modern sports car I have driven lately.

It's my worry that they have made it too refined chasing a wider demographic

 

[First Lotus]

A few have mentioned this but I'll say my piece to those opting for the porsche...
If I didn't hold aesthetics and uniqueness in such high regard, and wanted the 'best' car in terms of performance, I would opt for the Porsche. And indeed aesthetics is subjective so for anyone who thinks both are as beautiful as each other, I would also probably opt for porsche.
Its like going to your favourite restaurant... You know its excellent and it won't let you down. But what about that new restaurant that you've not tried yet, with no tripadvisor ratings???! The I e which looks amazing from the outside, but you never get chance to speak to the few people who you've seen in there directly???!
It could replace your favourite restaurant and be the talk of the town soon... Surely you should try it first???!
I'm going to choose off a new menu soon🤣

 

[Lotustoronto]

It's my worry that they have made it too refined chasing a wider demographic

Most reviewers so far have pointed that the Lotus still drives as a Lotus. I mean it's the same gear box, chassis developments, engine etc. ... how much different is it really going to be. Like Chris Harris said, same old lotus formula, but it's always been great. I think they refined it in all the right ways (quality, interior), but really left what people loved about the Evora for the most part. Now all we need is a damn picture of dark verdant.....

 

[kitkat]

I’m in a bit of a spot regarding my reservation. Technically being late to the party, not placing reservation until March, an FE was always off the table but I was given a high degree of confidence I would be able to place an order for a Base car in early to mid 2023 so I placed my reservation with Naples.

That’s where things started to go a bit off the rails. I have never been given a firm, “you are number xxx on the list”. It’s always, “your in the 170ish range.”. The excuse being each salesman only has visibility to their reservation book. I didn’t press it considering a lot will change between March 2022 and mid 2023 when I would be expecting to actually place my order.

Fast forward a few months and now I’m faced with a bit of a conundrum. The market for my current ride, a 2021 718 Spyder has gone nuts. I can place it on consignment at my Porsche dealer and they are confident I can net at least a $30,000 profit over what I paid for it back in Feb 2021. I figured I wouldn’t need to cross this bridge until next year but how long will the Porsche market last? Kind of a bird in the hand thing…..

The conundrum is I’m losing faith that my dealer is being forthcoming and I will see a car in the timeframe they sucked me into the deal with. Until the Emira hit the scene I was content that the Spyder was my end game sports car (I’m old ). I typically keep my modern Porsches for at least 5 - 7 years and I don’t see anything better on the horizon in the sub $150k space. So, I sell what is arguably one of the best mid engine ICE sports cars ever built on the hope I can replace it with a suitable ICE vehicle for less than a king’s ransom. Decisions decisions…….

If I could get a 718 Spyder for anywhere near the price of an Emira V6, I likely wouldn’t be here.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Exactly! I’ve made the comment that the Spyder is simply too good to really generate the levels of excitement on public roads that I have have experienced with lesser cars. That’s usually greeted with confused looks and certainly something I would never had said 20 years ago. My hope is the Lotus will rekindle some of the excitement that’s been engineered out of most modern sports cars.

Hoping for the same... The only Porsche I would consider over the Emira is the 718 Spyder. Mostly because it is convertible and to me one of the best looking Porsche ever. I wouldn't take a 992 cab, or any other 718 over an Emira....ok maybe a GT3 Touring, or a speedster too...

 

[Tonyshepp]

Ive been down a fashionable street in Sheffield today (a large UK city) and the amount of Porsches on there were plentiful, they are great cars but who wants predictable.
A Ferrari 458 drop top drove down and all eyes were on it. This will happen with the Emira and I can’t wait to be the cool oddball in the Emira in Sheffields poshest street…

 

[Evotion]

Somehow, until this thread I actually had no idea what a 718 Spyder is.
I think I must have heard about it but immediately excused it as just another Boxster which I have nothing good to say about.

But , wow, those 718 Spyders look the nuts. I really had no clue. The only Porsche that was on my rader was some form of GT3 - believing, seriously, the ONLY Porsche to get is a 911.

The shop has sailed now but I have to say I would have had a good look at that.