Emira track impressions

[OppositeLock]

@OppositeLock are you still on the stock oil pan?

Yes. Is there a reason to change it?

 

[jp129]

No, but just thinking about what Lotus did for the Evoras and equipped some variants with baffled pans.

Oil starvation is something I've had to contend with in my race cars and I don't have any data on Emiras with track focused <200 TW tires on track.

 

[F1 SML8R]

If you track more than once or twice a year, you want to change it out to either the OEM or one of the aftermarket baffled pans. I did it in my Evora for engine safety. The Toyota power plant is super bullet proof...

...assuming it has oil.

 

[jp129]

@OppositeLock as part of your OBDII data acquisition, is oil pressure captured?

That'll be convenient, otherwise I'd like to wire in some pressure sensors to data log.

 

[Chriscpm]

@OppositeLock as part of your OBDII data acquisition, is oil pressure captured?

That'll be convenient, otherwise I'd like to wire in some pressure sensors to data log.

If you do this, please elaborate on how. I run an OBD bluetooth device to TrackAddict. Even with OBD Fusion, there are not any oil pressure values.

 

[OppositeLock]

AFAIK, other than the low oil pressure warning, which doesn't use an analog pressure sensor, the car doesn't know the oil pressure, so there is nothing to read.

 

[jp129]

Thank you for confirming your experiences. Looks like anyone looking for that data will have to wire in a pressure sensor.

 

[OppositeLock]

I've now done a track day with the car on @GRP forged wheels, the Nitron ClubSport coilovers, and Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires. The car is corner balanced and ride height is about 1.5cm below factory.

The previous two track days made me regret selling my Elise, however, this one was so much better, that I can forgive myself.

The car now turns in much more sharply, and has significantly better feedback. It now behaves like a fat Elise. The steering wheel feedback is maybe 1/3 of what an Elise provides, but it's there. The feedback from the suspension that you get through your seat is maybe 1/2 of that in an Elise. These are subjective numbers, but that's how it feels to me. I have a whole lot of muscle memory from tracking an Elise, and some of this memory is wrong for this car. It pulls harder, but it corners more slowly, and you've got to brake earlier since you build speed faster and it's heavier. I screwed up a few times because of this.

I drove about 190 miles to the track on this suspension, and it's definitely harsh. That beautiful supple ride of the touring suspension is gone. It's not horrible, but the ride is stiff. Less stiff than my old Focus RS, which was notorious for being too stiff, but more stiff than most any street car. Also, the seats suck for the road too. On these long drives to/from the track, my Elise with Probax was better on my back.

The best I've ever done in my Elise in this track configuration is a 2:03.9 when I was really pushing it, on Yoko A005 slicks. Here's a video of 2:08.97 in the Emira on lesser tires.
.
According to AIM Race Studio 3, my best theoretical lap in that session would have been a 2:06.2 had I put everything together properly in a single lap.

The car has more speed in it. I've not been to this track in 6 years and made mistakes. In the lap above, for example, I let up on the throttle down the main straight to let someone pass, and yet, it was still my best lap. I lost a good second on that.

I used a probe pyrometer to help me figure out tire pressures. I let out 3 PSI relative to street pressure, so I started the session at 26F and 29R. After a session, the pressures got up to 31F and 35R. According to the pyrometer, the rears were about perfect, the fronts were underinflated. I kept adding pressure, and on this track, hot temps were about equal between front and rear, at 35psi. It differed a little from side to side, with the front right needing the most pressure (36) and rear left needing the least (33). I think if you push hard, 34-35psi hot pressures front and rear is a good number.

I was disappointed to discover that the car has idiot gauges. The temp gauge will not show values over 200F, it seems. If I turn the car off too soon after the session, even if it shows 200F coolant temp, it starts up in limp mode due to heat. Let it idle 5 minutes after a session, and this doesn't happen. Temp gauge, once warm, always reads 200F exactly. I don't believe this. On my Elise, it was all over the place, between 180-220 at the track, which seems more normal. My AIM was having a problem reading the water temp, so I don't know what the actual value is.

That was a lot of mixed feelings above, but don't get me wrong, I love the car, I was just pointing out where it's less than perfect. I had a blast. The car has more performance to give.

 

[PatrickJS]

"It now behaves like a fat Elise."
this is the best comment

 

[seriously]

Fat Elise is not a bad place to be. Feels like it should push much stronger than a Miata but corner much better than an m3. Kind of an inbetweener.

Great intel on tire pressures too!

 

[Tracked Emira]

I've now done a track day with the car on @GRP forged wheels, the Nitron ClubSport coilovers, and Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires. The car is corner balanced and ride height is about 1.5cm below factory.

The previous two track days made me regret selling my Elise, however, this one was so much better, that I can forgive myself.

The car now turns in much more sharply, and has significantly better feedback. It now behaves like a fat Elise. The steering wheel feedback is maybe 1/3 of what an Elise provides, but it's there. The feedback from the suspension that you get through your seat is maybe 1/2 of that in an Elise. These are subjective numbers, but that's how it feels to me. I have a whole lot of muscle memory from tracking an Elise, and some of this memory is wrong for this car. It pulls harder, but it corners more slowly, and you've got to brake earlier since you build speed faster and it's heavier. I screwed up a few times because of this.

I drove about 190 miles to the track on this suspension, and it's definitely harsh. That beautiful supple ride of the touring suspension is gone. It's not horrible, but the ride is stiff. Less stiff than my old Focus RS, which was notorious for being too stiff, but more stiff than most any street car. Also, the seats suck for the road too. On these long drives to/from the track, my Elise with Probax was better on my back.

The best I've ever done in my Elise in this track configuration is a 2:03.9 when I was really pushing it, on Yoko A005 slicks. Here's a video of 2:08.97 in the Emira on lesser tires.
.
According to AIM Race Studio 3, my best theoretical lap in that session would have been a 2:06.2 had I put everything together properly in a single lap.

The car has more speed in it. I've not been to this track in 6 years and made mistakes. In the lap above, for example, I let up on the throttle down the main straight to let someone pass, and yet, it was still my best lap. I lost a good second on that.

I used a probe pyrometer to help me figure out tire pressures. I let out 3 PSI relative to street pressure, so I started the session at 26F and 29R. After a session, the pressures got up to 31F and 35R. According to the pyrometer, the rears were about perfect, the fronts were underinflated. I kept adding pressure, and on this track, hot temps were about equal between front and rear, at 35psi. It differed a little from side to side, with the front right needing the most pressure (36) and rear left needing the least (33). I think if you push hard, 34-35psi hot pressures front and rear is a good number.

I was disappointed to discover that the car has idiot gauges. The temp gauge will not show values over 200F, it seems. If I turn the car off too soon after the session, even if it shows 200F coolant temp, it starts up in limp mode due to heat. Let it idle 5 minutes after a session, and this doesn't happen. Temp gauge, once warm, always reads 200F exactly. I don't believe this. On my Elise, it was all over the place, between 180-220 at the track, which seems more normal. My AIM was having a problem reading the water temp, so I don't know what the actual value is.

That was a lot of mixed feelings above, but don't get me wrong, I love the car, I was just pointing out where it's less than perfect. I had a blast. The car has more performance to give.

Great feedback! If this car was on slicks you would match the Elise lap times. Get the JB4 tune and it will be faster. I always let my cars idle. If it goes into limp mode always shut off car open the door and it should restart. It happened to me autocrossing and that's why I took out rear windshield and put on JUBU louvre to let more heat escape so I don't get heat sink and go into limp mode on track as I have with my challenger before cutting hood and installing louvres. Put in some barbon fober race seats and you will be good to go!

 

[geoffbland]

"It now behaves like a fat Elise"

Nah... Emiras are just big boned

 

[jp129]

Great feedback and a good data point for understanding the behaviors on spring rates on the car.

 

[sirringo]

Great feedback! If this car was on slicks you would match the Elise lap times. Get the JB4 tune and it will be faster. I always let my cars idle. If it goes into limp mode always shut off car open the door and it should restart. It happened to me autocrossing and that's why I took out rear windshield and put on JUBU louvre to let more heat escape so I don't get heat sink and go into limp mode on track as I have with my challenger before cutting hood and installing louvres. Put in some barbon fober race seats and you will be good to go!

Slicks are not going to be 5 seconds / lap faster at Thill.

The car has lots of time left in it - as OppositeLock said.

 

[PatrickJS]

I love my fat Elise. thanks a ton for giving us all the track feedback. I sub to your youtube for more vids and more track feedback

 

[Tracked Emira]

Slicks are not going to be 5 seconds / lap faster at Thill.

The car has lots of time left in it - as OppositeLock said.

At least 3 seconds off a lap on slicks depending on the track

 

[OppositeLock]

At least 3 seconds off a lap on slicks depending on the track

That's assuming the driver isn't the slowest link in the chain, as here I think this Emira, driven well on the 80TW tires I was doing is capable of a 2:04 on that track. This is my goal without slicks. Without a doubt, this is a faster car than my LSS supercharged elise was, it's just faster in different places. On this particular track, I was carrying a lot less speed through T1 and T8 than I could, T9 could be better, and I screwed up the entry onto the back straight through T12-T13 more often than not, since that's the place where the weight of the Emira really changes things. My brain is still set up for an Elise which is much more tossable and can brake later.

That being said, my time differences based on lap timer between slicks and R-comp street tires about 2.5 seconds in the Elise. I was also in my 30's and not my 50's.

 

[sirringo]

At least 3 seconds off a lap on slicks depending on the track

Not versus streetable (80TW!) track tires.

Thanks for the detail, OppositeLock!

 

[OppositeLock]

After thinking about it, the next best upgrade would be proper seats with harnesses. I bunch of my mistakes came from being tossed around like a leaf in the wind.

 

[jp129]

After thinking about it, the next best upgrade would be proper seats with harnesses. I bunch of my mistakes came from being tossed around like a leaf in the wind.

100% - It was the same experience for me as well. Flopping around more than a fish on land. Just waiting on GRP to ship the rails, then I can better assess the car on my home track.