Anyone driven the M139 (AMG A45 etc)?

KusaKusa

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Genuinely curious here -- if they have a lot of engineering why can't they just make an engine rather than using a 15 year old model from the Camry? I mean it's gotta be a pain in the butt to rely on other companies for engines.
Manufacturing something, especially something as complex and precise as an engine, is SOOOO much harder vs just buying it off the shelf and tuning it. That's likely where the difference lies in Lotus tuning with their limited budgets vs developing a new engine costing over a billion USD.

:oops::oops::oops:

This was described to you by people in the know? As far as I understand, the M139 already has a pretty linear power delivery. The small turbo MB engines, including the M139, are characterized by delivering the sensation of a naturally aspirated large displacement engine with good low end torque that continues to build - the torque peak is at 5K. This is in contrast to other high output turbo engines where the torque peaks at much lower RPMS and falls quickly towards the mid and upper RPMs. The GTI, STI, and Supra are good examples of this. Also as far as I know, this is a conscious design decision by MB and one that is implemented using software control instead of special intake/exhaust configuration. Fiddling with the intake and exhaust will make some measurable differences at the edges, but those are going to be relatively minor and would not change the characteristic of the engine.
I've heard this distinction with the M139 turbo vs other turbo engines. But reviewers still say the M139 cars have significant turbo lag / boost threshold time. So it won't be as good in response as a NA engine, the electric turbo version of the M139, or maybe the Ferrari TTV8.
 

Pegasi

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You will probably find the cost to develop an engine runs into 100's of milliones and even a billion as crazy as it sounds. One that is efficient enough to comply with regulations etc. This is why there is so much sharing of costs even with the big car companies, Mazda, ford, Renault....

and this engine doesnt even need to last more than maybe 10 races....

So Lotus has about 130 engineers in their engineering group (from their website). Ricardo engines who @Cutting42 said made McLaren's engines has 800 engineers just to design engines (from their website). This why its difficult to compare Lotus to another other car company. It's like comparing your local bakery to Duncan Hines (USA reference, not sure if sold world wide.)

EDIT: So yes, millions and billions seems right.
 

emiraspain

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So Lotus has about 130 engineers in their engineering group (from their website). Ricardo engines who @Cutting42 said made McLaren's engines has 800 engineers just to design engines (from their website). This why its difficult to compare Lotus to another other car company. It's like comparing your local bakery to Duncan Hines (USA reference, not sure if sold world wide.)

EDIT: So yes, millions and billions seems right.
Yes thats right and, I dont know, and I am not going to find out, but quite possibly Ricardo's engine comes from someone else ultimately..... I mean, the most popular "Rover" "Jaguar" and I dont know what else they were put in engine, came from a US block... cant even remember if it was Chrysler or Chevy or... GMC...covering most bases here. SOmeone else will recall the top gear episode more than me and Im too tired to youtube it.

Point being, I dont know it Ricardo go from scratch....... I'd say not
 

Cutting42

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Yes thats right and, I dont know, and I am not going to find out, but quite possibly Ricardo's engine comes from someone else ultimately..... I mean, the most popular "Rover" "Jaguar" and I dont know what else they were put in engine, came from a US block... cant even remember if it was Chrysler or Chevy or... GMC...covering most bases here. SOmeone else will recall the top gear episode more than me and Im too tired to youtube it.

Point being, I dont know it Ricardo go from scratch....... I'd say not

Then you would be wrong 🤪 Ricardo are a very experienced engine and transmission designer and builder for decades. My company has been a supplier to Ricardo for years. They are a very clever organisation and work with many other engine constructors in an advisory capacity.
 

emiraspain

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Then you would be wrong 🤪 Ricardo are a very experienced engine and transmission designer and builder for decades. My company has been a supplier to Ricardo for years. They are a very clever organisation and work with many other engine contractors in an advisory capacity.
so they make their own blocks?

If they do, I accept I am wrong.... but I want to see the foundry haha
 

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