Would you change from V6 to I4 if I4 had 400HP?

[xen]

At the end of it all we buy our cars for different reasons. I see the Emira as a modern sports car you can do comfortable miles in and lotus’s approach (with the Evora as a reference) suggests they agree.

 

[Pegasi]

Great points by @xen & @Eagle7. I would tend to agree with Eagle7 and the poll. I believe even though Lotus has a record number of deposits this is still a niche car appealing to enthusiasts.

However Xen makes a good point. Is this forum representative of 5000 deposit holders? It would be interesting to see in a few years when/if Lotus offers a 400HP (or 400HP+) I4 in markets with the V6 what the breakdown will be.

 

[digilotus]

If I had the funds and the space, I would buy both a V6FE manual and an i4 DCT.

One with touring suspension + goodyears and one with sports suspension + cup2s.

 

[xen]

Great points by @xen & @Eagle7. I would tend to agree with Eagle7 and the poll. I believe even though Lotus has a record number of deposits this is still a niche car appealing to enthusiasts.

However Xen makes a good point. Is this forum representative of 5000 deposit holders? It would be interesting to see in a few years when/if Lotus offers a 400HP (or 400HP+) I4 in markets with the V6 what the breakdown will be.

With the way it looks I don’t think it’ll be a niche car. It’ll be limited by virtue of production numbers yes but I’d guess for a fair few buyers it’d be their first Lotus (primarily because it looks so good). To paraphrase it’s - come for the looks, stay for the handling / feel / experience.

I wouldn’t consider the 718 a niche car and I’d consider it the Emira’s primary competition.

 

[emiraspain]

Just in case emissions aren't the only reason Lotus isn't providing a 400HP in as many markets as possible (meaning speculation that a 400HP I4 would upstage the V6) I wanted to know who would switch if the HP is the same. Based on the poll it seems that they aren't competing because of what everyone pretty much confirms, it's not an engine choice but a transmission choice. Sound is a factor but not as signification as transmission.

aha... well depends, for me sound goes 100% with manual. I would not want one without the other. If the AMG was manual but didnt sound as good, Id seriously consider switching to padels... but then the Toyota set up with auto probably isnt as good as the AMG one...
too many factors I think to take into account.
for me its also a simple case of I want the car NOW, hence I dont want to wait for the AMG, which realistically will be 6-12 months later and is not a proven tech with lotus, maybe more issues initially....

 

[Eagle7]

Keep in mind back when the decision was made to include the i4, they were thinking of their Vision 80 plan, which would have put the production run for the Emira at 10 years. The obvious engine to use would of course be the V6 with manual and/or auto, because they already had that setup worked out. Matt said they knew however, that they would only be able to use the V6 for 5 years due to upcoming emissions and regulation changes, so they needed to find another engine to use for the last 5 years of their plan. It needed to be able to at least match the V6 for power output if it was going to replace it at the 5 year mark.

At that time though, they never dreamed they'd get the reaction to the Emira they have, or the number of deposits/orders. They were probably at the most hoping they could maybe sell a full year's production run of 5,000 cars, which would be triple what they usually sold. That probably seemed like a pipe dream and a real stretch at the time. Little did they know.

 

[Niffty951]

I voted 'would' switch to a manual I4 but I prefer 'would consider'. A little less weight, cost and range are the kinds of appealing factors that reduce reasons for getting rid of a car down the line.. but all that said it's very hard to turn down the option of a sound like that. An I4 Emira risks becoming the VX220 turbo to the Exige alternative. On paper a no brainer, but somehow missing everything that makes it worthwhile

 

[Schumacher]

Yes, the AMG engine is an option for exactly that reason - the emissions taxes on the V6 are eye-watering in many European countries and it's uneconomic to sell it in China. They already have a relationship with AMG, as the Chairman of Geely owns about 10% of DaimlerBenz.

The Emira probably has an 8 year model life. If the ban on selling petrol-engined cars comes into effect in the UK in 2030 as currently planned, then it's hard to see Lotus continuing to produce an ICE car they can't sell in their home market. They might, if there is enough demand from elsewhere.

But the Type 135 electric sportscar arrives in 2025 and will use the same Hethel production facility as the Emira. They may also build the Alpine version there too, so will need to switch capacity away from ICE to EV. The V6 will be killed off around then if the EU7 emissions regulations go ahead on time.

I expect we'll see a GT/S version of the Emira, plus possibly a V6 Final Edition. My hunch is we won't see loads of iterations like we saw with the Elise, Exige and Evora.

I hate to say this, but Lotus is a Chinese company now. They have other plans.

 

[TomE]

I hate to say this, but Lotus is a Chinese company now. They have other plans.

What are those plans? Geely has endorsed and funded the Lotus Vision80 strategy, which includes the Evija to Type 135 new models, a shift to EVs and phasing out of ICEs, new production facilities in UK and China plus new technology centres in UK, Europe and Asia.

 

[ADC]

What are those plans? Geely has endorsed and funded the Lotus Vision80 strategy, which includes the Evija to Type 135 new models, a shift to EVs and phasing out of ICEs, new production facilities in UK and China plus new technology centres in UK, Europe and Asia.

er... in Communist China, Lotus drives you! (??? 🤷‍♂️ )

 

[~el~jefe~]

30 pounds of boost.

what's more to be said other than that?

Also, not meant to be installed in a place that gets too hot , a mid engine.

 

[~el~jefe~]

er... in Communist China, Lotus drives you! (??? 🤷‍♂️ )

I cannot wait for globalism and slave labor to define the brand. Makes me giddy

 

[ADC]

30 pounds of boost.

what's more to be said other than that?

Also, not meant to be installed in a place that gets too hot , a mid engine.

I'm squinting real hard and trying to understand... you're saying "30 pounds of boost" like it is a bad thing? I heartily declare it to be awesome . This is not just some *cough cough* Camry engine with the wick turned up...

The mid engine placement / cooling systems can clearly cope with at least a 400hp tune, or they wouldn't be offering it to other markets.

 

[r1lee]

30 lbs of boost in a multi thousand dollar engine from one of, if not the worst ever, customer service organizations = no thanks
mercedes is a terrible company. someone will white-knight them after my comment and deny reality.

Vs toyota = most reliable vehicles made.

That is so funny. So many people I've talked to hate Mercedes (me included). Worst dealership experience ever.

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

It’s a sample size of 71 on an enthusiast forum, hardly representative.

The i4 would be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, more fuel efficient, lighter and quicker. That would appeal a lot more to the broader market than just transmission and sound. You also have to consider the roads in a lot of target markets aren’t just twisty B-roads.

The take-rate on manual versions of ‘enthusiast’ cars where we have a lot more data clearly shows a preference for automatics in the broader market. This is granted not a like for like as they have the engine in common but it’s a data point.

The proof though is in the pudding (this at least can’t be argued about) and Lotus decided to limit the i4 to ‘allow’ the v6 be the halo model. It implies it wouldn’t have been with the i4 at full pelt - which also suggests to me they consider speed and track times to be important as well.

#ForThe71Enthusiast

 

[xen]

It’s a sample size of 71 on an enthusiast forum, hardly representative.

The i4 would be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, more fuel efficient, lighter and quicker. That would appeal a lot more to the broader market than just transmission and sound. You also have to consider the roads in a lot of target markets aren’t just twisty B-roads.

The take-rate on manual versions of ‘enthusiast’ cars where we have a lot more data clearly shows a preference for automatics in the broader market. This is granted not a like for like as they have the engine in common but it’s a data point.

The proof though is in the pudding (this at least can’t be argued about) and Lotus decided to limit the i4 to ‘allow’ the v6 be the halo model. It implies it wouldn’t have been with the i4 at full pelt - which also suggests to me they consider speed and track times to be important as well.

As I thought, the i4’s the model considered to drive demand for the Emira.

“Windle says the 2.0-litre variant is a key driver of demand.”

Lotus Emira demand outstripping supply - NewsExplorer

Production of new Lotus sports car expanded to meet higher than expected customer orders

newsexplorer.net

 

[Pegasi]

As I thought, the i4’s the model considered to drive demand for the Emira.

“Windle says the 2.0-litre variant is a key driver of demand.”

Lotus Emira demand outstripping supply - NewsExplorer

Production of new Lotus sports car expanded to meet higher than expected customer orders

newsexplorer.net

Good article, explains a lot that I have suspected in terms of Lotus responding to rapid growth.

And yes it appears your thoughts on the I4 are reflected in Windle's comments. However, in your opinion would the two compete if the I4 had 400HP based on this article? It still doesn't appear so. Windle is speaking of a new consumer who wants a modern automatic and a four cylinder.

It will be interesting to see if a lot of females end up driving these as Windle states. I for one am glad I put a deposit down and look forward watching this car evolve.

 

[xen]

Good article, explains a lot that I have suspected in terms of Lotus responding to rapid growth.

And yes it appears your thoughts on the I4 are reflected in Windle's comments. However, in your opinion would the two compete if the I4 had 400HP based on this article? It still doesn't appear so. Windle is speaking of a new consumer who wants a modern automatic and a four cylinder.

It will be interesting to see if a lot of females end up driving these as Windle states. I for one am glad I put a deposit down and look forward watching this car evolve.

I think for a large subset of the Auto’s they would. For the manual ‘purists’ certainly not.

It’s from my read part GT and part sports car. The GT market I expect would prefer the faster (objectively and subjectively) and cheaper 400bhp i4.

 

[Pegasi]

I think for a large subset of the Auto’s they would. For the manual ‘purists’ certainly not.

It’s from my read part GT and part sports car. The GT market I expect would prefer the faster (objectively and subjectively) and cheaper 400bhp i4.

As reported by several journalists over the last several years, auto manufacturers offer manuals but the trend has been that they don't get ordered. People opt for the automatic so in a market with a 400HP I4 DCT vs a V6 Auto, the DCT would probably win out because the only remaining question would be exhaust, but again, how important is exhaust to the new Lotus customers.

Here is a video with Doug DeMuro talking about Ferraris and manuals. People don't want them. Skip to 13:35. I find this hard to believe but I guess this is another data point that shows enthusiasts may participate in forums more and they want manuals but we are very much in the minority. I am not saying if you want an Auto you are not an enthusiast! I love them both!

 

[TomE]

As I thought, the i4’s the model considered to drive demand for the Emira.

“Windle says the 2.0-litre variant is a key driver of demand.”

Lotus Emira demand outstripping supply - NewsExplorer

Production of new Lotus sports car expanded to meet higher than expected customer orders

newsexplorer.net

And as he also says, a big factor in that is emissions. The V6 gets priced out of the running in many markets.

So, rather than power equalisation, another interesting hypothetical question is “if the V6 and i4 had the same emissions (and hence taxes) which would you buy?”