Seatbelts jammed

[duff]

Seatbelts! Both have failed one after another on my car in the 24 hours after collection.
The passenger belt failed pretty much on first use, not wanting to pull out more than a few cm after being taken off, which was pretty inconvenient when in the middle of the nowhere with a passenger who could not reapply their belt. The drivers side felt a bit grabby when I tried to lean forward at junctions from the off and then failed completely when back at the Lotus dealership as I was demonstrating that it was also problematic.

I am told that someone is currently on their way across the country with replacement parts so that I can have the car back with me by close of play today 🤞which if they succeed is a much more acceptable outcome than the 2 week turnaround originally suggested.

It was stated that this is not an isolated incident with a few occurrences across Europe, although I am not sure if it is down to a sub standard batch or a design defect that has since been identified and rectified as the wording used could have implied both.

 

[Mctaff]

That’s a brilliant outcome though. Credit to lotus where it’s due, they are all over these initial faults

 

[duff]

I am pleased to report that the car is now back home with 2 new seatbelts and a software update - although not the one that fixes the wipers which I am told should come soon.

Hats off to Lotus for turning it around and thanks to the chap who travelled across from Hethel to fix it.

 

[TomE]

Great to hear Lotus pulled out all the stops and it's all sorted before the Christmas break. Hope you manage to get loads of your running-in miles done.

 

[Hethel Merman]

I noticed on a couple of cars the seat belts look twisted. Maybe that's something to do with it.

 

[TomE]

Both demo cars I've driven had that twist. I guess it could potentially result in the twist travelling back into the tensioner and jamming, but isn't a twisted belt possible on any car? Surely the belts and tensioners are designed accordingly?

 

[duff]

Not posted in a week on this thread.

It's been 3 weeks now since the Emira has been back at Lotus Glasgow. Getting really good updates from them, but still not sorted unfortunately.

ECU is now being replaced this week, with a hope that will resolve the software bugs and issues causing the car to go into limp mode and that is currently preventing the vehicle from starting at all right now. Fingers are crossed.


Cross copied for a post in another thread, for transparency here is the issue list. Number 4 on this list is the issue currently being experienced by the dealership, so they are unable to progress the rest till that's resolved.


1) Wipers when on auto mode sometimes don't go into full speed mode when needed - Harry mentions this in his video also.
2) Engine Management Light - it's come on randomly a few times with no errors at all the last few days - but car drives fine.
3) Engine Management Light - and car goes into 'Engine Reduced Acceleration' mode - effectively limp mode, max 3500rpm etc. Turning off and on sorted this, but why did it happen?
4) The car needed the battery disconnected and reconnected to do a full restart on the car's software because it wasn't starting, or fully turning off once, super weird, like it was stuck in diagnostics mode loop. Easily sorted, but could be related to software or battery issue?
5) Passenger seat belt is twisted, and keeps twisting even if you untwist it.

On point 5. My passenger belt was untwisted but failed within 24 hrs of collection. It was replaced with another untwisted belt but that failed immediately. The currently belt looks twisted when at rest, almost like it is backward as it twists top and bottom, but has not failed yet which is several weeks later. Once plugged in it doesn’t feel twisted to wear.

Edited to add that when they fitted the 3rd set of belts the drivers belt was also switched to this twisted orientation.

 

[Eagle7]

On point 5. My passenger belt was untwisted but failed within 24 hrs of collection. It was replaced with another untwisted belt but that failed immediately. The currently belt looks twisted when at rest, almost like it is backward as it twists top and bottom, but has not failed yet which is several weeks later. Once plugged in it doesn’t feel twisted to wear.

Edited to add that when they fitted the 3rd set of belts the drivers belt was also switched to this twisted orientation.

Do you have a picture of this by any chance? Lotus obviously doesn't make their own seatbelts, so they're buying them from a supplier, but either they have an installation issue or they've been sent a bad batch of seatbelt assemblies. They wouldn't be the first auto manufacturer to have that happen.

 

[Porter]

On point 5. My passenger belt was untwisted but failed within 24 hrs of collection. It was replaced with another untwisted belt but that failed immediately. The currently belt looks twisted when at rest, almost like it is backward as it twists top and bottom, but has not failed yet which is several weeks later. Once plugged in it doesn’t feel twisted to wear.

Edited to add that when they fitted the 3rd set of belts the drivers belt was also switched to this twisted orientation.

When you say "failed" what do you mean exactly? It's a reinforced polyester webbed belt...?

 

[duff]

When you say "failed" what do you mean exactly? It's a reinforced polyester webbed belt...?

They wouldn’t extend out. The drivers belt was initially grabby so when leaning forward to get better look at a junction the auto tensioner would prevent you from moving. It got worse until you could not extend it at all. The passenger belt was locked in the wounded position after the first use. The same happening immediately after it was replaced.

 

[Eagle7]

They wouldn’t extend out. The drivers belt was initially grabby so when leaning forward to get better look at a junction the auto tensioner would prevent you from moving. It got worse until you could not extend it at all. The passenger belt was locked in the wounded position after the first use. The same happening immediately after it was replaced.

So it's the belt mechanism, not the belt itself. That's a different type of issue. That's mechanical rather than a material failure.

Lotus is just installing the belts, the belts and mechanism are from the supplier they purchased them from.

This brings up a point someone else said elsewhere, that the pressure to deliver may be causing suppliers to rush things and wind up delivering sub-standard parts as a result. This isn't the fault of Lotus, but it certainly adds to the difficulties they've been going through, which transfers to the customers who are now discovering these issues.

This requires identifying which order batch the defective belt systems came from, and isolating the VIN range of the cars they were installed in. It also would require issuing a recall notice to be remedied.

Anyone experiencing these kinds of issues, be sure and notify your dealer and Lotus so they can begin identifying the shipment number these belt mechanisms came from.

 

[Lotustoronto]

So it's the belt mechanism, not the belt itself. That's a different type of issue. That's mechanical rather than a material failure.

Lotus is just installing the belts, the belts and mechanism are from the supplier they purchased them from.

This brings up a point someone else said elsewhere, that the pressure to deliver may be causing suppliers to rush things and wind up delivering sub-standard parts as a result. This isn't the fault of Lotus, but it certainly adds to the difficulties they've been going through, which transfers to the customers who are now discovering these issues.

This requires identifying which order batch the defective belt systems came from, and isolating the VIN range of the cars they were installed in. It also would require issuing a recall notice to be remedied.

Anyone experiencing these kinds of issues, be sure and notify your dealer and Lotus so they can begin identifying the shipment number these belt mechanisms came from.

Or Lotus QC lack the training to see defective components that come from suppliers.

 

[Eagle7]

Or Lotus QC lack the training to see defective components that come from suppliers.

That's the problem, it may not look defective because the defect is internal in the mechanism.

 

[ADC]

That's the problem, it may not look defective because the defect is internal in the mechanism.

The punster in me really wants to say... let's give them some slack on this one

 

[nelly111s]

The punster in me really wants to say... let's give them some slack on this one

Or reel them in?

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

On point 5. My passenger belt was untwisted but failed within 24 hrs of collection. It was replaced with another untwisted belt but that failed immediately. The currently belt looks twisted when at rest, almost like it is backward as it twists top and bottom, but has not failed yet which is several weeks later. Once plugged in it doesn’t feel twisted to wear.

Edited to add that when they fitted the 3rd set of belts the drivers belt was also switched to this twisted orientation.

I think Lotus is facing some issues similar to Egypt air.

Next we will hear a solution for the seat belt in line with the following video at 1:45

 

[duff]

So it's the belt mechanism, not the belt itself. That's a different type of issue. That's mechanical rather than a material failure.

Lotus is just installing the belts, the belts and mechanism are from the supplier they purchased them from.

This brings up a point someone else said elsewhere, that the pressure to deliver may be causing suppliers to rush things and wind up delivering sub-standard parts as a result. This isn't the fault of Lotus, but it certainly adds to the difficulties they've been going through, which transfers to the customers who are now discovering these issues.

This requires identifying which order batch the defective belt systems came from, and isolating the VIN range of the cars they were installed in. It also would require issuing a recall notice to be remedied.

Anyone experiencing these kinds of issues, be sure and notify your dealer and Lotus so they can begin identifying the shipment number these belt mechanisms came from.

For clarity: when stating that seatbelt failed I am referring to that it was completely non functional.
I was repeatedly told by Lotus that the initial replacement seatbelts would be an uprated part (I probably posted as much elsewhere when I highlighted the problem). However It turns out this was a ‘miss communication”. After one of the replacements failed in exactly the same way I was told the issue was actually caused by the seatbelts being incorrectly installed. According to Lotus the belt was installed on the wrong side of the car because “there is no clear way knowing from visual inspection” which side they go on - their words. So the issue was not down to a defective part.
My only reason for raising was to this was to highlight that having a twisted belt appears to mean it is correctly installed. In my experience if the belt sits flush it is actually fitted on the wrong side of the car. Although that assumes the twists are the same as I have.

 

[R1272]

That's the problem, it may not look defective because the defect is internal in the mechanism.

...that wasn't tested before leaving the factory, or caught at any post inspections, etc. Joke.

It's the F'ing seatbelts! Seriously....

 

[Hethel Merman]

In that photo it looks like if they untwist the bottom of the belt where it joins the seat, the buckle would be facing the wrong way ie outwards.

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

For clarity: when stating that seatbelt failed I am referring to that it was completely non functional.
I was repeatedly told by Lotus that the initial replacement seatbelts would be an uprated part (I probably posted as much elsewhere when I highlighted the problem). However It turns out this was a ‘miss communication”. After one of the replacements failed in exactly the same way I was told the issue was actually caused by the seatbelts being incorrectly installed. According to Lotus the belt was installed on the wrong side of the car because “there is no clear way knowing from visual inspection” which side they go on - their words. So the issue was not down to a defective part.
My only reason for raising was to this was to highlight that having a twisted belt appears to mean it is correctly installed. In my experience if the belt sits flush it is actually fitted on the wrong side of the car. Although that assumes the twists are the same as I have.
View attachment 21935

I checked on the Demo here in Bilbao.

The seat belt is installed exactly like in your picture. It works well, therefore belongs to the correct seating position and no mechanical failure, but it is also twisted on top.

I changed the direction of the buckle to make it correct coming from the top, but then it was twisted coming from the base of the seat, so the solution was worse than the problem.

My thinking is that it is not in the right direction in the bottom of the seat, easy solution I think, just uninstall in the bottom of the seat, change direction, and change direction of the buckle, and it will look normal. (Not an expert, so don't know if this can be done as I say)

A separate issue is if it is jammed when you pull, that I don't know if it will be due to installation of inappropriate belt for the proper side, easy fix in this case, just install the right one, or failure of the mechanism, also easy fix, install a new one non faulty.

In any case, whether it is wrong installation, or faulty mechanism , should not be rocket science for Lotus to give a fast solution.