Paint blistering issue update

[3PFan]

If this is true, and certainly sounds appropriate, then once the air expels itself, no more to come? Why not at that point sand/repair surface, repaint and have no more problem-rather than replacing with new door, which apparently has same defective air trapping to repeat cycle? Just a thought; if/when this occurs to my car will think hard about this approach. If not all expelled first repair, and few more appear, than repeat.

maybe

 

[3PFan]

Personally, I feel that Lotus should stand behind all repairs, no matter how it's handled.

 

[JonFuller]

Well interestingly that ties in with my question to Steve Tillet, about the blisters appearing to follow the line of a sanding / feathering repair.

I trust that if you were to suffer a reappearance of this issue (on the same door) you'd let us know?

Interesting.

 

[3PFan]

Well interestingly that ties in with my question to Steve Tillet, about the blisters appearing to follow the line of a sanding / feathering repair.


Interesting.

Of course

 

[Orchardbike]

It looks like we’re looking at two different issues here. The circular bubble issue and the straight line bubble issue. While replacing the door will fix both issues, sanding/‘digging out’ and repainting will only fix the one issue (circular bubbling) I think!!!

 

[skysailor]

I have a question that I don’t believe anyone has asked. Has any correlation been seen or attempted with respect to specific paint colors and bubbling? I realize this is probably a stretch but inquisitive minds are inquisitive.

 

[ADC]

I have a question that I don’t believe anyone has asked. Has any correlation been seen or attempted with respect to specific paint colors and bubbling? I realize this is probably a stretch but inquisitive minds are inquisitive.

Contrary to popular myth, red does not bubble fastest...


More seriously, I would not expect there to be any correlation here, as it is the panel at fault, not the paint formula.

 

[F1 SML8R]

I have a question that I don’t believe anyone has asked. Has any correlation been seen or attempted with respect to specific paint colors and bubbling? I realize this is probably a stretch but inquisitive minds are inquisitive.

Not a stretch, different chemical compounds even if only slightly different can react differently with the composite panels. I think the variables in play are as follows:

1) door panel manufacturer date
2) door panel storage prior to paint (heard some were outside sitting in rain at the factory???)
3) paint color
4) paint manufacturer
5) paint manufacturer date
6) actual painter (person at Lotus)
7) actual paint mix preparer (person at Lotus)
8) Car manufacture date
9) is the car stored indoors or outdoors after purchase
10) where is the car located (geography as a proxy for rain exposure)

The preceding are all variables that could have had an impact and this is just what I came up with in 5 mins. I'm guessing if I had a detailed workflow of how the doors get painted and installed, I'd ID a few more variables.

 

[3PFan]

Not a stretch, different chemical compounds even if only slightly different can react differently with the composite panels. I think the variables in play are as follows:

1) door panel manufacturer date
2) door panel storage prior to paint (heard some were outside sitting in rain at the factory???)
3) paint color
4) paint manufacturer
5) paint manufacturer date
6) actual painter (person at Lotus)
7) actual paint mix preparer (person at Lotus)
8) Car manufacture date
9) is the car stored indoors or outdoors after purchase
10) where is the car located (geography as a proxy for rain exposure)

The preceding are all variables that could have had an impact and this is just what I came up with in 5 mins. I'm guessing if I had a detailed workflow of how the doors get painted and installed, I'd ID a few more variables.

The paint may NOTnbe the issue -- it could be a repair Lotus did under the paint using resin and fill compounds that are not compatible with each other on the composite panel.

 

[geoffbland]

I think it has been established that the issue is not the paint but the underlying composite.

Also for what's worth I did some more research on the Teijin's TCA Ultra Lite panels as supplied to Lotus. The panels are sealed with a conductive primer/bonding agent by Teijin before delivery - this was originally the white stuff but is black in later cars. Although what this primer is propriety and not disclosed by Teijin I suspect it is the one produced by Kansai Automotive Paints. This conductive primer is water-proof once applied (or as described in the patent at least water-resistant, so I believe as good as waterproof in normal use - at least good enough to stop water getting into the composite) .

"The white conductive primer coating composition of the present invention contains a crosslinking agent together with the above resin component to improve the film performance characteristics, such as water resistance, and is used as a thermosetting coating composition."

This is just a guess and of course there's nothing to say the primer was correctly applied or has not be damaged afterwards.

I've attached the patent for this. There's more info on online but not as much detail as given in the patent.

 

[frankiejr]

Not sure if this helps or hinders the recent comments but my rear quarter was repaired due to blistering (not replaced) and 3 weeks later I have new blistering in exactly the same place or within 5cm of the original spot (It may not be on the identical spot).

 

[F1 SML8R]

Not sure if this helps or hinders the recent comments but my rear quarter was repaired due to blistering (not replaced) and 3 weeks later I have new blistering in exactly the same place or within 5cm of the original spot (It may not be on the identical spot).

That's interesting because I don't believe this panel is made by Teijin. This implies it could indeed be something other than the Teijin supplied panels.

 

[frankiejr]

That's interesting because I don't believe this panel is made by Teijin. This implies it could indeed be something other than the Teijin supplied panels.

I got the car 2 years old and it had already had the doors replaced before I took ownership. Then washing it one day I noticed the blistering on the offside rear quarter so took it in to get inspected (along with the car not starting intermittently, the boot not latching properly and forget the other issues). I asked for a replacement panel but they said standard practice is ti sand down and respray. Looked good at first but my next wash and they were back again. This time will aim to push for a replacement.

 

[geoffbland]

That's interesting because I don't believe this panel is made by Teijin. This implies it could indeed be something other than the Teijin supplied panels.

The rear quarter is made by Teijin. Teijin make both doors, the rear hatch and surround and the rear quarter panel.
Lotus make the front wings, roof and the bonnet (hood). The bumpers are plastic and not composite.

 

[geoffbland]

I asked for a replacement panel but they said standard practice is ti sand down and respray. Looked good at first but my next wash and they were back again. This time will aim to push for a replacement.

Repair in place has indeed become the standard practice for the quarter panel recently from Lotus as it is very labour intense to replace this particular panel. But as you have found - just sanding down the affected area, repairing and respray often does not work - the whole panel is affected and so the issue is likely just to re-appear later in untreated parts of the panel. I have heard that repairers are speaking to Lotus about this - recommending they go back to replacing it.

 

[JonFuller]

does anyone have photos of the location of the blisters on the rear quarters?

 

[geoffbland]

does anyone have photos of the location of the blisters on the rear quarters?

I don't have photos but I have seen another car that had the rear quarter affected in for work at a dealership. Here the blistering was over the near vertical part all underneath the FE badges on both sides.

 

[F1 SML8R]

The rear quarter is made by Teijin. Teijin make both doors, the engine cover and surround and the rear quarter panel.
Lotus make the front wings, roof and the bonnet (hood). The bumpers are plastic and not composite.

Thanks for clarifying that. I had it stuck in my head that it was only the doors and rear hatch ("engine cover" for the other English speakers is the plastic stuff on, over or around the engine depending on V6 or i4). Good to know that the rear quarter panels are Teijin as well.

 

[geoffbland]

"engine cover" for the other English speakers is the plastic stuff on, over or around the engine depending on V6 or i4

Good point - I have edited my earlier post to clarify.

 

[frankiejr]

Repair in place has indeed become the standard practice for the quarter panel recently from Lotus as it is very labour intense to replace this particular panel. But as you have found - just sanding down the affected area, repairing and respray often does not work - the whole panel is affected and so the issue is likely just to re-appear later in untreated parts of the panel. I have heard that repairers are speaking to Lotus about this - recommending they go back to replacing it.

That’s the funny thing, they remove it from the car to repair it! Said it was easier for them that way as it’s a bolt on/off part