Is it possible the Geely / China in major financial trouble?

[Lotustoronto]

Found this very interesting. As we know from 2008, real estate bubbles can cause Havoc even to auto manufacturers. I don't know how accurate this report is, and I am not one to spread dis-information. Maybe some of our fellow Chinese forum members can comment more accurately to what is going on / if anything is going on?

Anyway what would happen to Lotus if Geely was negatively impacted?

 

[Jonhklee]

The CCP is a massive pyramid scheme for developing world….. they pretty much bought out most of Africa with infrastructure in exchange of their mines, and East Asia (so called belt and brace countries…). If they all default, CCP finance will be in massive trouble….

Create a MASSIVE new middle class population, lend them lots of loans to spend on estates and consumer goods, rising economy and so on…… go figure what happens….

 

[0pirates0]

Does the mtg problem exist? Yes it does, and no one (including CCP) hasnt figured it out how to deal with the problem.
Is Geely facing the problem now? I do not see what Geely has to deal with it. Although BYD and other electrical car manufactures had taken some of its market share at the moment. Geely is still a competitive force in China with strong cash flow.
Is CCP falling? Well, from the point of view of the western world, the CCP had already fallen over 20 years ago.

However, from my information source, Geely does not know/cannot fully control Lotus in the Great Britain. They do admit there's problem with the Emira 2.0T, but they do not know/do not want to admit that is a main problem. The sales rep keeps saying the problem is shortage of semi-conductors or other electrical parts. But rumors are saying the AMG engines are playing main roles. Right now 2.0T was delayed to Q2 2023, but kind of concern about it.

 

[Jonhklee]

Does the mtg problem exist? Yes it does, and no one (including CCP) hasnt figured it out how to deal with the problem.
Is Geely facing the problem now? I do not see what Geely has to deal with it. Although BYD and other electrical car manufactures had taken some of its market share at the moment. Geely is still a competitive force in China with strong cash flow.
Is CCP falling? Well, from the point of view of the western world, the CCP had already fallen over 20 years ago.

However, from my information source, Geely does not know/cannot fully control Lotus in the Great Britain. They do admit there's problem with the Emira 2.0T, but they do not know/do not want to admit that is a main problem. The sales rep keeps saying the problem is shortage of semi-conductors or other electrical parts. But rumors are saying the AMG engines are playing main roles. Right now 2.0T was delayed to Q2 2023, but kind of concern about it.

Don’t like the idea of AMG engine causing problems!! Is it supply or technical issues I wonder!?

 

[Autopsy]

In short: CCP central government has been trying to suppress real estate bubble/dependence for years and one measure is setting a red line limiting the leverage real estate companies can take, so when they collapse the banks (and the rest of the society) won’t go down with them.
Then in a functioning capitalist society what will happen? Real estate developers struggle and took whatever they have to go down with them: unfinished projects and respective homebuyers, to make an impact on society hoping government will cave in to the pressure and bail them out.
So it’s mostly by design, just like some slowing down in domestic consumption and logistic difficulties due to strict Covid measures. CCP enforced the measure intentionally thinking it’ll be beneficial long term.

 

[Autopsy]

Plus as China don’t have crazy financial inventions like CDOs and large banks are generally sound, chance of it hurting automotive companies like Geely are very slim. I would worry much more about BYD eating up it’s market share much more than real estate bubbles, it’s going full steam like a locomotive this year.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Some very interesting comments... I appreciate some clarity from @Autopsy and @0pirates0. The reason I wondered about Geely being affected is that when a real estate sector collapses it tends to affect every industry. All industry's worldwide will have some type of exposure to real estate.

Very interesting about the comments of the i4 causing issues. I agree with this. I posted a screen shot of our configurator showing i4 F/E's to be delivered winter 23/24. That was changed recently, not sure if anyone caught that. That is 1.5 years late. Base i4 would be sometime mid 2024! Something is definitely wrong with the development of that engine into a mid engine chassis.

 

[Jonhklee]

Some very interesting comments... I appreciate some clarity from @Autopsy and @0pirates0. The reason I wondered about Geely being affected is that when a real estate sector collapses it tends to affect every industry. All industry's worldwide will have some type of exposure to real estate.

Very interesting about the comments of the i4 causing issues. I agree with this. I posted a screen shot of our configurator showing i4 F/E's to be delivered winter 23/24. That was changed recently, not sure if anyone caught that. That is 1.5 years late. Base i4 would be sometime mid 2024! Something is definitely wrong with the development of that engine into a mid engine chassis.
View attachment 7842

Uk configuration still stating 22/23 winter

 

[daniel heald]

In short: CCP central government has been trying to suppress real estate bubble/dependence for years and one measure is setting a red line limiting the leverage real estate companies can take, so when they collapse the banks (and the rest of the society) won’t go down with them.
Then in a functioning capitalist society what will happen? Real estate developers struggle and took whatever they have to go down with them: unfinished projects and respective homebuyers, to make an impact on society hoping government will cave in to the pressure and bail them out.
So it’s mostly by design, just like some slowing down in domestic consumption and logistic difficulties due to strict Covid measures. CCP enforced the measure intentionally thinking it’ll be beneficial long term.

I have to laugh. Apologies, as the old TV show might say "No Offence".
I look around and I do not see a functioning capitalist society.

From too big too fail to corruption at the very top of our society's.

VW and dieselgate.
Boeing and 737 Max
Big pharma getting indeminty from an experimental vaccine yet taking obscenely huge profits.
Goldman Sachs just about in everything they do.
Nancy Pelosi, head of tech commision and having a very succesful investment portfolio with husband.
Elon Musk finanicial dealings to talk up share price to bail out the company.
Amazon paying staff peanuts and Bezos walks away with billions. Shades of dark satanic mills. We have learnt nothing.

It is so similar to the end of the fuedal society. A lord at court got wealthy because he was close to the seat of power the king, not because he was a good lord of the manor back home. Corruption, clear and simple.
not even close to resembling Adam Smith.

Apologies for complete off topic rant. I will have broken rules, smack my wrist and truth lets have honesty.

 

[Autopsy]

I have to laugh. Apologies, as the old TV show might say "No Offence".
I look around and I do not see a functioning capitalist society.

From too big too fail to corruption at the very top of our society's.

VW and dieselgate.
Boeing and 737 Max
Big pharma getting indeminty from an experimental vaccine yet taking obscenely huge profits.
Goldman Sachs just about in everything they do.
Nancy Pelosi, head of tech commision and having a very succesful investment portfolio with husband.
Elon Musk finanicial dealings to talk up share price to bail out the company.
Amazon paying staff peanuts and Bezos walks away with billions. Shades of dark satanic mills. We have learnt nothing.

It is so similar to the end of the fuedal society. A lord at court got wealthy because he was close to the seat of power the king, not because he was a good lord of the manor back home. Corruption, clear and simple.
not even close to resembling Adam Smith.

Apologies for complete off topic rant. I will have broken rules, smack my wrist and truth lets have honesty.

No offense taken as I should have added “” mark to make my sarcastic intent more obvious. I agree with everything you’ve said as we have them as well, though may differ in fields and intensity.

 

[Pegasi]

I have always wondered about these agreements. Such as when FCA owned Ferrari. Geely could have a controlling stake in Lotus but they may not "own" them. I know this comes down to legal stuff but I don't see Lotus giving up decades of engineering. My post isn't totally related to this thread but I just think there has got to be an off ramp for Lotus if needed.

 

[Jonhklee]

I have always wondered about these agreements. Such as when FCA owned Ferrari. Geely could have a controlling stake in Lotus but they may not "own" them. I know this comes down to legal stuff but I don't see Lotus giving up decades of engineering. My post isn't totally related to this thread but I just think there has got to be an off ramp for Lotus if needed.

Lotus don’t need to give up their IPs! Geely just “borrow” them off their servers!