Henry Catchpole - Carfection review

[Lotustoronto]

I’m not sure if that entire text was meant for me or not, I was simply pointing out they’re not the same suspension components.

Sorry.... It was a rant I went on....not meant for you at all!.... Your comment was correct.

 

[Eagle7]

Yes, the yellow car is Sports + Goodyears, like the Shadow Grey used for the Monaco and Anglesey tests. Henry wanted a car for another review after the first round of reviews (published in early June) and again asked for Sports, hence why it's the same spec.

A couple of corrections on other points.

The Lotus-specific tyre structures and compounds were primarily developed by Lotus and the manufacturers around the two main applications, so Touring = Goodyears and Sports = Michelins. But the Goodyears were also developed with use on Sports in mind. Lotus wouldn't offer an option (Sports + Goodyears) they hadn't fully developed and tested.

There are three different geometry setups to cater for the three suspension/tyre combinations being offered by Lotus, not just two setups based on suspension:

• Touring + Goodyears
• Sports + Goodyears
• Sports + Michelins

So cars leaving the factory will have their geometry optimised for the suspension and tyre you specify.

These geo setups will be published in the owners manual, as with previous Lotus cars. So if you switch tyres you'll know which setup adjustments to make.

You don't necessarily have to make the changes if you switch. For example if you run Sports + Goodyears as a road car and have a second set of wheels with Michelins you swap onto the car for a few track days each year. You might notice the slight differences near the limit from not changing the geo to match.

It's also possible to do Touring + Michelins as an option for someone who runs their Emira as a road car with a spare set of wheels with Michelins for track days. Gavan confirmed this was also a valid setup, although not offered by Lotus on new cars. If there isn't a geometry setup in the owners manual for this I'm sure one will be available via other routes.

People will also experiment with other tyre choices and geometry setups and I'm sure those will get shared on here and other forums, as has happened for the previous cars.

Thank you, that was additional information I did not know. It still makes me wonder what it is about the Sport/Goodyear combo that's leaving reviewers unsatisfied.

 

[mjw930]

Ok, help me out here. I watched the review twice and am stretched to understand all the angst. For me it was a glowing review that describes the car I always expecting Lotus to deliver. It makes me even more excited to get to experience the “Lotus” style of motoring.

Literally the only negative I heard was how the car pushes in tight corners at the limit. Hell, my 718 Spyder did exactly the same thing on a GT spec suspension with Cup 2’s. It doesn’t do that anymore because I had the alignment changed. In reality this comment is more an inditement of the tire, not the car. And I’ve said this before, take a GT4/Spyder and swap in the optional PS4S 3 season tires Porsche allows you to spec and it does exactly the same thing but you don’t see Rennlist exploding about how “disappointed” everyone is…….

 

[Eagle7]

Something else to consider for those who want more acceleration out of their Emira, is to get a close-ratio gear set for the trans. I know there's a company that makes a set for the Evora I believe (don't remember the name) and it wasn't cheap if I remember correctly, but with the additional customer pool of the Emira coming into play, the price might come down some. Yes it's more money, and I know "I shouldn't have to...." etc., but consider what you'd pay for a car like the Emira with 450 hp or more. Now look at a base V6 with manual, (or an FE if you got one) and then add the few thousand to change out the gear set. A closer ratio 2nd-5th would dramatically improve the acceleration at the expense of having to shift more often, but if you bought a manual, you wanted to shift yourself anyways, right? Where you'd really notice the improvement is 3rd and 4th. There wouldn't be that long slow windup, the car would pull stronger (and faster) through each gear, and that would give you the performance feeling you'd otherwise have to spend a lot to get the engine to 450 hp. Keep 6th as-is for economy cruising, or maybe even 5th and 6th. Depends on what's available.

The nice thing about a close-ratio set is it does nothing to the engine; no additional strain, no additional heat, no hit to the gas mileage.

 

[Lotustoronto]

As for track times.... I do think a proper set up Emira can beat a Cayman GTS at the Ring... Reason Below;

Emira - 1:18:50
BMW M5 (f10)- 1:18:58 - Closest to Emira's time without Cup 2's and Best Geo setup for track.
BMW M5 (f10) - 7:55 Ring time
Cayman GTS 4.0 - 7:40 (Porsche time in PDK)

I think it can take a Cayman GTS time, with Cup 2's Manual vs Manual. With a pro Lotus driver that knows the car inside and out, I don't really look at non manufacturer times as it comes down to the driver, especially in a manual. A caveat the M5 will have more power in the straights which benefits it, I know.

A GT4 Time is 7:32 (PDK). That will be for the next Emira version to beat.

A Lotus developed at Hethel on it's track as the last ICE needs to perform on track. I don't care about 0-60 times or HP. But these Lotus needs to keep up on track.

 

[vantage]

As for track times.... I do think a proper set up Emira can beat a Cayman GTS at the Ring... Reason Below;

Emira - 1:18:50
BMW M5 (f10)- 1:18:58 - Closest to Emira's time without Cup 2's and Best Geo setup for track.
BMW M5 (f10) - 7:55 Ring time
Cayman GTS 4.0 - 7:40 (Porsche time in PDK)

I think it can take a Cayman GTS time, with Cup 2's Manual vs Manual. With a pro Lotus driver that knows the car inside and out, I don't really look at non manufacturer times as it comes down to the driver, especially in a manual. A caveat the M5 will have more power in the straights which benefits it, I know.

A GT4 Time is 7:32 (PDK). That will be for the next Emira version to beat.

A Lotus developed at Hethel on it's track as the last ICE needs to perform on track. I don't care about 0-60 times or HP. But these Lotus needs to keep up on track.

Lotus doesn't test at the Ring and consequently the cars really aren't set up for the Ring either. That said, the AMS Supertest of the Lotus Evora 400 resulted in a time of 7:59 on PSS tires (so not Cup 2s).

 

[Lotustoronto]

Lotus doesn't test at the Ring and consequently the cars really aren't set up for the Ring either. That said, the AMS Supertest of the Lotus Evora 400 resulted in a time of 7:59 on PSS tires (so not Cup 2s).

I know they don't, just thought they should. Maybe for the track version of the Emira coming up. Or one of the faster i4 variants in the future. Just looked up a 992 GT3 time - 6:55.4 ... That is outrageous, and Anglesey in 1:12.8. Sorry not to derail the thread - back to Carfection

 

[emiraspain]

Ok, help me out here. I watched the review twice and am stretched to understand all the angst. For me it was a glowing review that describes the car I always expecting Lotus to deliver. It makes me even more excited to get to experience the “Lotus” style of motoring.

Literally the only negative I heard was how the car pushes in tight corners at the limit. Hell, my 718 Spyder did exactly the same thing on a GT spec suspension with Cup 2’s. It doesn’t do that anymore because I had the alignment changed. In reality this comment is more an inditement of the tire, not the car. And I’ve said this before, take a GT4/Spyder and swap in the optional PS4S 3 season tires Porsche allows you to spec and it does exactly the same thing but you don’t see Rennlist exploding about how “disappointed” everyone is…….

I only watched it once and I dont really want to watch it again, but I guess everyone has their own take and I am happy you are happy, really!.. I am underwhelmed on the other hand, but past caring now. I would just say, when he spoke about bends, it seemed very much to me as if he was saying long slow curves are great (as they would be perhaps in even a mini bus), but tighter corners, without being at the limit I felt, are a struggle and not as enjoyable.
Then just about everything else was at best, ok, lotus like, but as per many reviews now, the engine, its sound and the transmission are average.
Anyway, as I said, I dont care too much, I just want it.. haha

 

[FederGigant]

Thank you, that was additional information I did not know. It still makes me wonder what it is about the Sport/Goodyear combo that's leaving reviewers unsatisfied.

It's just a misconception. We heard a few times that Sports with Goodyears performs not perfect on track and Cup2s do a better job. That's logic, but that doesn't make it a bad setup. Touring with Goodyears performs even worse on track and still, no-one complains about that.
If you want the best track car, you have to go Sports and Cup2s, if you want the easiest possible daily driver, you go Touring with Goodyears. If you are going for Sports suspension with Goodyears, you will get the sportier driving experience up until 8-9/10ths, but you also have three season tires that don't wear like crazy and don't scream at you when driving fast. That's looking at it the positive way. Others might say you have the worse performing tires with the more uncomfortable suspension. All just perspective.
What reviewers seem to want from the Sports/Goodyear setup is having the sportier suspension with tires performing as good as a semi slick without being one. Unfortunately until now, there is no tire with all the benefits of a semi slick, but without all its downsides.

 

[Johnson]

Did anyone else notice the car in this video looked like a satin/matt yellow? I didn’t think I’d like a matt finish on this car, although now I’m thinking satin white would be phenomenal…

 

[Hedge]

Its interesting this whole last ICE car, and is the Emira the last developed ICE car of them ALL? Not just Lotus, but anyone's? Who else has developed a "brand new" petrol car and released it within the last year and who else will do so over the next few years? Im not talking about derivatives here, ie a BMW 1 series new M or new GT3 of the 992 or 992.2 next year etc, but a NEW CAR.

Could this be the very last one?
If it is, it will only help residuals for all models. I probably wouldn't keep a car just as I thought it would go up in value, not for long anyway, but it certainly wouldn't hurt the argument for getting one, which in turn helps residuals. The dealers also need to try to control the used markets a little bit, with some help from Lotus.
In some ways it could have been a disaster developing one of the last ICE cars, but in other ways and if Lotus play their cards right, it could be a fortunate decision. They are 3 - 0 up with 15 mins to play, its really in their hands now, Comms is losing them a goal every few minutes though...

Well, Porsche seem to be carrying on with ICE cars for a few years more. Prob longer than Lotus. It’s just Lotus who’ve said this is it.

Yes, the yellow car is Sports + Goodyears, like the Shadow Grey used for the Monaco and Anglesey tests. Henry wanted a car for another review after the first round of reviews (published in early June) and again asked for Sports, hence why it's the same spec.

A couple of corrections on other points.

The Lotus-specific tyre structures and compounds were primarily developed by Lotus and the manufacturers around the two main applications, so Touring = Goodyears and Sports = Michelins. But the Goodyears were also developed with use on Sports in mind. Lotus wouldn't offer an option (Sports + Goodyears) they hadn't fully developed and tested.

There are three different geometry setups to cater for the three suspension/tyre combinations being offered by Lotus, not just two setups based on suspension:

• Touring + Goodyears
• Sports + Goodyears
• Sports + Michelins

So cars leaving the factory will have their geometry optimised for the suspension and tyre you specify.

These geo setups will be published in the owners manual, as with previous Lotus cars. So if you switch tyres you'll know which setup adjustments to make.

You don't necessarily have to make the changes if you switch. For example if you run Sports + Goodyears as a road car and have a second set of wheels with Michelins you swap onto the car for a few track days each year. You might notice the slight differences near the limit from not changing the geo to match.

It's also possible to do Touring + Michelins as an option for someone who runs their Emira as a road car with a spare set of wheels with Michelins for track days. Gavan confirmed this was also a valid setup, although not offered by Lotus on new cars. If there isn't a geometry setup in the owners manual for this I'm sure one will be available via other routes.

People will also experiment with other tyre choices and geometry setups and I'm sure those will get shared on here and other forums, as has happened for the previous cars.

Thanks Tom. This was my understanding also. Good to have it confirmed re the tyre choices. The Sports + Goodyears I had wasn’t a random choice, it was advised to me as a very good U.K. A & B road all weather choice.

And I’m sure it would have been good enough.

Then again I’ve never seen anyone tail slide around an English B road on purpose in a decent car. Let’s face it - why the f would anyone risk that or think that’s the way to drive? (Sorry a pet hate of YouTube/top gear videos).


Plenty around suburban roundabouts in modified cars though! And some are very good at it!

 

[Hedge]

It's just a misconception. We heard a few times that Sports with Goodyears performs not perfect on track and Cup2s do a better job. That's logic, but that doesn't make it a bad setup. Touring with Goodyears performs even worse on track and still, no-one complains about that.
If you want the best track car, you have to go Sports and Cup2s, if you want the easiest possible daily driver, you go Touring with Goodyears. If you are going for Sports suspension with Goodyears, you will get the sportier driving experience up until 8-9/10ths, but you also have three season tires that don't wear like crazy and don't scream at you when driving fast. That's looking at it the positive way. Others might say you have the worse performing tires with the more uncomfortable suspension. All just perspective.
What reviewers seem to want from the Sports/Goodyear setup is having the sportier suspension with tires performing as good as a semi slick without being one. Unfortunately until now, there is no tire with all the benefits of a semi slick, but without all its downsides.

Let’s face it: if you want the best performing track car, don’t buy the Emira!

If you do track an Emira with Goodyears, you’ll still have a lot of fun though.

I’ve said before many times on here: Goodyears aren’t the greatest of tyres. Mates have had them on the hallowed Porsche GT/Spyders and despised them. Ruined those cars.

 

[kitkat]

Let’s face it: if you want the best performing track car, don’t buy the Emira!

If you do track an Emira with Goodyears, you’ll still have a lot of fun though.

I’ve said before many times on here: Goodyears aren’t the greatest of tyres. Mates have had them on the hallowed Porsche GT/Spyders and despised them. Ruined those cars.

Some differing view points here:

- Track days aren't about the best performing track car, it's all about driver development. There's always someone with a faster car than you, but it doesn't mean they're a faster driver. The Emira is going to do just fine if you want to use it casually or even every other weekend in the advanced groups.

- Those goodyears aren't going to be any good for anything but a beginner to low intermediate at the track. Any faster and you'd just destroy them in 2-3 sessions. They will be just fine however for an everyday tire and occasional brisk weekend drive.

- Anyone serious about any kind of track time isn't likely going to be rolling on 20" with goodyear or cup2s. They'll likely be seeking some 18" with a dedicated track tire that will manage consistent grip throughout the 20min x 20-25 sessions.

 

[dgrace]

- Anyone serious about any kind of track time isn't likely going to be rolling on 20" with goodyear or cup2s. They'll likely be seeking some 18" with a dedicated track tire that will manage consistent grip throughout the 20min x 20-25 sessions.

My worry is finding 18’s that will fit around the stock calipers. I notice the GT4 is running Wilwoods and I could swear it’s a smaller(!) disc up front.

 

[emiraspain]

Plenty around suburban roundabouts in modified cars though! And some are very good at it!

thank you, I do my best

 

[FederGigant]

Let’s face it: if you want the best performing track car, don’t buy the Emira!

If you do track an Emira with Goodyears, you’ll still have a lot of fun though.

I’ve said before many times on here: Goodyears aren’t the greatest of tyres. Mates have had them on the hallowed Porsche GT/Spyders and despised them. Ruined those cars.

The Goodyears are one of the two best tires available on the market for the use case they are developed for besides the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s. Their use case simply isn‘t track driving.

 

[roundincircles]

I think car reviews can potentially mislead. Take the comment that the car does not turn in well,on tighter corners…..is that relative to long radius corners or other cars? Technique or tyres?

My experience with mid engine cars is that most need to go in slow to very tight corners or they will under steer and power oversteer if the throttle is deployed to early or hard(technique). Certainly the Cayman Cup track car needs slow in, rotate, faster out or it will understeer big time. McLaren 720 similar but it stability systems will not give you throttle if heavy footed. My GT4 certainly rotates better at lower speeds in tight corners.

We need a test drive, simples!

 

[CarGuy07]

Everyone before Henry’s review: I cannot wait for his review. He is very objective and is a great reviewer. I am sure it will be positive and eases everyone’s minds.

After his review: I don’t understand why they would give him that suspension setup (same question asked on Jethro’s review). It’s still a glowing review (even though it isn’t and not sure why people are kidding themselves).

It’s fun reading comments defending Lotus. Sorry to say but I don’t think the Emira is what it’s all cracked up to be. The $100M investment has made a difference but not one that wows. I have doubts Lotus be that serious of a contender in the future with EV. The purchase experience sucks and the car is simply underwhelming. The fairytale is over guys…

 

[Green]

Everyone before Henry’s review: I cannot wait for his review. He is very objective and is a great reviewer. I am sure it will be positive and eases everyone’s minds.

After his review: I don’t understand why they would give him that suspension setup (same question asked on Jethro’s review). It’s still a glowing review (even though it isn’t and not sure why people are kidding themselves).

It’s fun reading comments defending Lotus. Sorry to say but I don’t think the Emira is what it’s all cracked up to be. The $100M investment has made a difference but not one that wows. I have doubts Lotus be that serious of a contender in the future with EV. The purchase experience sucks and the car is simply underwhelming. The fairytale is over guys…

As they say ”opinions are like Aholes and everyone has one!” Thanks for sharing your brilliant review.

 

[roundincircles]

Everyone before Henry’s review: I cannot wait for his review. He is very objective and is a great reviewer. I am sure it will be positive and eases everyone’s minds.

After his review: I don’t understand why they would give him that suspension setup (same question asked on Jethro’s review). It’s still a glowing review (even though it isn’t and not sure why people are kidding themselves).

It’s fun reading comments defending Lotus. Sorry to say but I don’t think the Emira is what it’s all cracked up to be. The $100M investment has made a difference but not one that wows. I have doubts Lotus be that serious of a contender in the future with EV. The purchase experience sucks and the car is simply underwhelming. The fairytale is over guys…

The purchase experience sucks .... tick
Reviews influence......tick
Emira is not what it's cracked up to be........is this determined by what you have read or from a drive........
Lotus not a serious contender in EV........is this determined by what you have read or from a drive.......or a prediction?
The car is simply underwhelming......is this determined by what you have read or a from a drive.....

It is fun reading peoples reactions......tick