Emira production is underway

[Rudolph]

* * * * *
Ref: There were 165 dealers worldwide in 2019... My guess is that's at least 170 now. Even if they each had only 60 deposits, that's 10,200 right there.

Yesterday I was for the 1st service inspection of my new Evora at the Dutch Lotus importer / Dealer (we have only one in the Netherlands)
He told me to have 34 deposits for the Emira, so that is some less as 60 deposits.
This is for the entire country of the Netherlands with plus 17 million population.
He furthermore told me to receive his 1st demonstration car next June.
He also told me that the emissions of the i4 have turned out to be higher.......as I remember well from approx 120-130 to around 150. This results in extra taxing the sales price with plus € 10.000,-

 

[Porter]

* * * * *
Ref: There were 165 dealers worldwide in 2019... My guess is that's at least 170 now. Even if they each had only 60 deposits, that's 10,200 right there.

Yesterday I was for the 1st service inspection of my new Evora at the Dutch Lotus importer / Dealer (we have only one in the Netherlands)
He told me to have 34 deposits for the Emira, so that is some less as 60 deposits.
This is for the entire country of the Netherlands with plus 17 million population.
He furthermore told me to receive his 1st demonstration car next June.
He also told me that the emissions of the i4 have turned out to be higher.......as I remember well from approx 120-130 to around 150. This results in extra taxing the sales price with plus € 10.000,-

I was using napkin math... a guess at a worldwide average of 60 deposits, not that every single dealer would have literally 60. Some may have 100, others may have 30. Some small markets with exceptionally high import costs (Singapore) may have only 10, though I hear they have far more than that. But even if the worldwide net average is lower than my guess, for example if it were only 50 cars per... that's still 8,500 cars pre-ordered, and more coming in all the time.

I don't know why there's such incredulity from some people about Lotus getting thousands of deposits on this car. The demand is real.

 

[eclat2emira]

Do we need a section for cancellations to see how many are not going through with their orders. As I was absolutely buzzing this week I was a August delivery and now I’m June as was offered a cancellation and snapped it up 😊so I suppose someone further down the line will be getting offered my August delivery slot. Couldn’t believe my luck as I literally was just thinking it’s going to be a long summer with no wheels. Now I just need to 🤞that the drive excites me 🤞Wonder who had dropped out from a early delivery car 🤔

That is great news - super-happy for you!!! I'm August delivery which is sooner than I'd hoped, a bump to July or even June would be awesome! (but means I'd better get on with selling the Vantage!)

 

[LotusB]

There are US dealers with more than 300 deposits. Even my tiny backwater dealer down in Winston-Salem, NC had more than 60 paid deposits on the books back in January. If we took a wild guess at an average of 100 deposits per dealer, the North American dealer network (45 dealers) would have ~4500 orders right now.

There were 165 dealers worldwide in 2019... My guess is that's at least 170 now. Even if they each had only 60 deposits, that's 10,200 right there.

Lotus will be working through this initial order backlog for at least 2 years, I suspect.

I was using napkin math... a guess at a worldwide average of 60 deposits, not that every single dealer would have literally 60. Some may have 100, others may have 30. Some small markets with exceptionally high import costs (Singapore) may have only 10, though I hear they have far more than that. But even if the worldwide net average is lower than my guess, for example if it were only 50 cars per... that's still 8,500 cars pre-ordered, and more coming in all the time.

I don't know why there's such incredulity from some people about Lotus getting thousands of deposits on this car. The demand is real.

Your napkin math is a little ambitious based on my estimates. I live in one of Lotus' hottest markets and my dealers don't have that many deposits. There's plenty of demand for sure, but it's not as high as you purport.

Even though the car is relatively well priced, it's still out of reach for most. I hope Lotus does well, obviously, and I hope they always have more demand than they can satiate, but I'm just not as optimistic as you about those numbers.

Who knows though? We'll see, the car isn't even out yet.

 

[Eagle7]

I think Bellevue, the number 2 dealer in the U.S. has 150, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the top 5 dealers all have over 100 deposits just by themselves. With Lotus expanding their dealer network worldwide, it's very hard to say how many deposits are out there but I have no problem believing it's well north of 5,000. This is all before any cars are out on the streets. Once the general public sees these, I have no doubt the number of orders will increase, especially when they find out what the base price of the i4 is.

This car is clearly going to be a big winner for Lotus. Now give us an affordable baby Evija, and Lotus will be a force to contend with in the electric sports car market.

 

[TXEMIRA]

I think Bellevue, the number 2 dealer in the U.S. has 150, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the top 5 dealers all have over 100 deposits just by themselves. With Lotus expanding their dealer network worldwide, it's very hard to say how many deposits are out there but I have no problem believing it's well north of 5,000. This is all before any cars are out on the streets. Once the general public sees these, I have no doubt the number of orders will increase, especially when they find out what the base price of the i4 is.

This car is clearly going to be a big winner for Lotus. Now give us an affordable baby Evija, and Lotus will be a force to contend with in the electric sports car market.

Agree 100%.
Even if it’s just 500 that’s 5x the number of Evoras shipped to the US in 2018 just 4 years ago. Not bad.

#ForTheGrowth

 

[Magma]

I think Bellevue, the number 2 dealer in the U.S. has 150, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the top 5 dealers all have over 100 deposits just by themselves. With Lotus expanding their dealer network worldwide, it's very hard to say how many deposits are out there but I have no problem believing it's well north of 5,000. This is all before any cars are out on the streets. Once the general public sees these, I have no doubt the number of orders will increase, especially when they find out what the base price of the i4 is.

This car is clearly going to be a big winner for Lotus. Now give us an affordable baby Evija, and Lotus will be a force to contend with in the electric sports car market.

Yup...Bellevue has over 160!

 

[mjw930]

Yup...Bellevue has over 160!

Naples is very secretive about the actual numbers, at least to new customers like me but they did have over 170 2 weeks ago when I placed my deposit so I would imagine that will balloon to over 200 once a few more reviews hit YouTube. The one saving grace is they should get about 10% of the NA allocation so everyone on their list, at this point, should get a car by the end of 2023.

Other dealers like Orlando at 87 deposits, 2 weeks ago, admit they are on the cusp and are telling new customers they may not get a car till 2024.

It’s really pretty simple math as explained to me by 3 dealers (no, I am not making this up, it’s verbatim from 3 different dealers) You have to make some assumptions but it’s pretty widely accepted that NA got 700 FE allocations and is projected to get 2500 allocation for 2023 production (not confirmed, in my mind, whether that’s Model Year 2023 or Calendar Year 2023 though car manufacturers usually quote Model Year production).

Naples: 70 FE / 700 NA FE = 10%. 10% of 2500 NA Base = 250. Total cars through the end of 2023 production = 320. Everyone on the list as of March 15, 2022 should get a car with plenty of room to spare.
Orlando: 20 FE / 700 NA FE = 2.8%. 2.8% of 2599 NA Base = 71. Total cars = 91. Everyone on the list as of March 15, 2022 should get a car but with little room to spare. So, if you’re number 92 or higher with Orlando you better be hoping some folks drop off.

This is where it’s going to get dicey next year about this time. It’s highly likely I’ll be matched to an allocation in the Spring of 2023 while some who put down a deposit in 2021 at one of the smaller dealers may still be waiting. It’s going to cause a lot of friction for Lotus unless they manage allocations differently than say Porsche or Chevrolet (Corvette) historically do. The above model assumes a standard allocation model with no consideration to the number of deposits they have received.

 

[Magma]

Naples is very secretive about the actual numbers, at least to new customers like me but they did have over 170 2 weeks ago when I placed my deposit so I would imagine that will balloon to over 200 once a few more reviews hit YouTube. The one saving grace is they should get about 10% of the NA allocation so everyone on their list, at this point, should get a car by the end of 2023.

Other dealers like Orlando at 87 deposits, 2 weeks ago, admit they are on the cusp and are telling new customers they may not get a car till 2024.

It’s really pretty simple math as explained to me by 3 dealers (no, I am not making this up, it’s verbatim from 3 different dealers) You have to make some assumptions but it’s pretty widely accepted that NA got 700 FE allocations and is projected to get 2500 allocation for 2023 production (not confirmed, in my mind, whether that’s Model Year 2023 or Calendar Year 2023 though car manufacturers usually quote Model Year production).

Naples: 70 FE / 700 NA FE = 10%. 10% of 2500 NA Base = 250. Total cars through the end of 2023 production = 320. Everyone on the list as of March 15, 2022 should get a car with plenty of room to spare.
Orlando: 20 FE / 700 NA FE = 2.8%. 2.8% of 2599 NA Base = 71. Total cars = 91. Everyone on the list as of March 15, 2022 should get a car but with little room to spare. So, if you’re number 92 or higher with Orlando you better be hoping some folks drop off.

This is where it’s going to get dicey next year about this time. It’s highly likely I’ll be matched to an allocation in the Spring of 2023 while some who put down a deposit in 2021 at one of the smaller dealers may still be waiting. It’s going to cause a lot of friction for Lotus unless they manage allocations differently than say Porsche or Chevrolet (Corvette) historically do. The above model assumes a standard allocation model with no consideration to the number of deposits they have received.

Although it has been stated many times from the beginning that Lotus is rewarding dealers with the highest sales the highest number of cars.

I guess nothing in life is fair and we're all in for a wait. Hopefully everyone who wants a car will eventually get one in the end!

 

[Mike-engel]

You make the assumption that we are going to order this car eventually. There are a lot of 1st time lotus customers like me that lotus SAYS they value and are trying to bring into the brand. But this ordering experience is shit compared with other brands I’ve purchased and I am being teased along getting angrier by the day. Do I really want this car and to be stuck in this customer experience- dealer not helpful, Lotus even less so…? Very much remains to be seen.

I think you are right about this. Once the excitement of making the deposit and the anticipation of ownership wears off, folks are left with a hole to fill and mounting frustration as to when or if it will happen. For those who made deposits shortly after the reveal only to learn they won’t be eligible for what they anticipated because of arbitrary decisions about dealer allocation, coupled with a complete vacuum of info about the what and when, it’s a hard pill to swallow. I can see both sides. The realist position is, “get over it…it’s just the way it is.” Which of course is true. The idealist position is, “why should we have to settle for this….I’ve made my commitment to Lotus, so where’s their commitment to me?” It’s everyone’s choice where they wish to live between these two extremes. It’s a lot easier to be a realist when your car is just around the corner but a lot harder when you have no idea when it will come, what features it will have, how much you’ll pay,what your post-purchase experience will be, etc. Lotus has a rich history and a loyal following. They have produced some exceptional cars, like the original Elan in all its forms, the Esprit, the Elise, the M100 Elan, the Exige, the Evora, and now we think the Emira. But so far all that has produced is some wonderful cars, a loyal following and multiple flirtations with bankruptcy. For the realists in the group, I suspect many are found among the loyal followers. For the idealists, I suspect many are new to the brand and have been expecting a better experience. Lotus, whose expressed goal is to broaden their appeal, should recognize the need to focus on the perception of these new buyers, or at least acknowledge their voice and make some effort to address their frustrations. They really aren’t doing that. Everyone agrees with this. Disagreement seems to be connected to the degree to which Lotus has an obligation to its customers to provide them with information. Some will tolerate the information vacuum and move forward. Particularly those with proximate build slots. Some will find the lack of info disconcerting, even dismissive, arrogant, or offensive. Perhaps they have already decided to move on. Then there’s all those in between. It’s these people Lotus needs to be worried about. It’s the rare person whose not already an enthusiast who will wait for two years in ignorance waiting for a car. Lotus risks these people changing their minds, particularly if the circumstances (like price, features, etc.) change. They may no longer be able to afford what the signed up for, or find something else that meets their needs now. Loyalty is earned, and for this group Lotus is auditioning for that loyalty right now. Despite what seems to be a remarkable car…a dream for some, they aren’t doing a great job walking and chewing gum at the same time (recognizing that someone shoved 10K sticks of gum in their mouth at once, and in four distinct flavors).

 

[BeHappy]

What is your spec

 

[BeHappy]

Manual V6 with sports suspension
Nimbus with red leather, lower blackpack
Black gloss wheels
Privacy glass
Homelink

 

[darkling]

last i heard boardwalk in ca. had 140 or so on list they are number 4 .

 

[GetawayDriving]

I think you are right about this. Once the excitement of making the deposit and the anticipation of ownership wears off, folks are left with a hole to fill and mounting frustration as to when or if it will happen. For those who made deposits shortly after the reveal only to learn they won’t be eligible for what they anticipated because of arbitrary decisions about dealer allocation, coupled with a complete vacuum of info about the what and when, it’s a hard pill to swallow. I can see both sides. The realist position is, “get over it…it’s just the way it is.” Which of course is true. The idealist position is, “why should we have to settle for this….I’ve made my commitment to Lotus, so where’s their commitment to me?” It’s everyone’s choice where they wish to live between these two extremes. It’s a lot easier to be a realist when your car is just around the corner but a lot harder when you have no idea when it will come, what features it will have, how much you’ll pay,what your post-purchase experience will be, etc. Lotus has a rich history and a loyal following. They have produced some exceptional cars, like the original Elan in all its forms, the Esprit, the Elise, the M100 Elan, the Exige, the Evora, and now we think the Emira. But so far all that has produced is some wonderful cars, a loyal following and multiple flirtations with bankruptcy. For the realists in the group, I suspect many are found among the loyal followers. For the idealists, I suspect many are new to the brand and have been expecting a better experience. Lotus, whose expressed goal is to broaden their appeal, should recognize the need to focus on the perception of these new buyers, or at least acknowledge their voice and make some effort to address their frustrations. They really aren’t doing that. Everyone agrees with this. Disagreement seems to be connected to the degree to which Lotus has an obligation to its customers to provide them with information. Some will tolerate the information vacuum and move forward. Particularly those with proximate build slots. Some will find the lack of info disconcerting, even dismissive, arrogant, or offensive. Perhaps they have already decided to move on. Then there’s all those in between. It’s these people Lotus needs to be worried about. It’s the rare person whose not already an enthusiast who will wait for two years in ignorance waiting for a car. Lotus risks these people changing their minds, particularly if the circumstances (like price, features, etc.) change. They may no longer be able to afford what the signed up for, or find something else that meets their needs now. Loyalty is earned, and for this group Lotus is auditioning for that loyalty right now. Despite what seems to be a remarkable car…a dream for some, they aren’t doing a great job walking and chewing gum at the same time (recognizing that someone shoved 10K sticks of gum in their mouth at once, and in four distinct flavors).

For what it's worth, I've ordered cars from other brands and my experience ordering this Lotus has been better than those others.

I reserved a Model 3 two years before the car was available. There was very little info, no test drives, no reviews, nothing until I was invited to configure my car. After that, I had no communication until someone from a call center reached out to schedule a delivery day. I remember there was a kid who took delivery of an early model and drove it across the country as a road show, inviting people on Facebook to come test drive his car. On a frigid winter night in the northeast, 50 people showed up to see his car and drive it. This guy was providing more info than Tesla was. Don't get me started on Cybertruck, granted my deposit for that was only $100.

Then there's Jeep. I placed an order, and jumped on the forums where owners had created crude database tools to track the status of FCA's inventory system. Basically it looks up VIN and returns a code that tells us if the unit is gathering parts, in the paint shop, in QA, etc. The community did this because Jeep gives nothing. If it weren't for that tool, I would have been in total darkness as to what was happening with my order. Even the dealer I ordered from, who was otherwise great, had no idea when my order would arrive. My salesman and his finance manager had both been waiting over 6 months for theirs, and were both totally in the dark about when they might get them. It seemed like Jeep would almost arbitrarily produce certain orders before others, whether it be because they were churning out certain configurations or something else. My salesman speculated that certain colors were getting produced in batches because they "had a lot of granite silver orders arrive ahead of customers who had been waiting much longer".

Now with Lotus, I've known for 2 months already exactly which day I'll be placing my order. Based on that I know when my order will go into production, and I already have an estimated delivery window. Part of this is having a great dealer who seems really on top of the messaging, but so far I'm finding it to be refreshingly communicative.

With all of that said, I just want to see the colors. I want to see photos of the cars in final paint. Seems like this should exist by now, so it's frustrating that we're scouring the web or hanging off the words of folks who have taken no-camera factory tours. Honestly though Jeep was exactly the same. They were taking orders for "Gecko" and I was interested, but there were absolutely no images of the color and it wasn't even on the configurator. When it did finally show up on the config, it looked terrible and not at all like the real-world examples that were delivered.

I guess my point is, ordering a car is messy business no matter where you go. Maybe Porsche is different, but I have friends on that side of the fence faced with $100k markups and gatekeeping over who gets to buy which models. No thanks on any of that.

 

[Pegasi]

Do not cancel @PaulP . Stay the course. Speak your mind when you need to. Once we start getting cars in the US everyone will look at us and want one and they can't get one. Even if that takes us until 2024 to get ours. I know that's a bit shallow and not much of a consolation but we will keep each other sane and when we all get our cars we will do Emira meets all over the freaking country. I am personally focusing on what type of machine this will be and can't wait for actual owners to tell us. @Mike-engel gives a great explanation as always.

 

[Eagle7]

It's surprising how many companies, even big ones, seem to have no idea how to interact with people, much less their customers. They appear to think customer interaction only applies to sales and service, so they leave that to the sales people, who are there to sell you something. If you ask or try to ask anything from corporate, you get a wooden response if any at all.

Nobody seems to understand the value and fun of entertainment in the business world, unless it's specifically entertainment. Real entertainment isn't about the entertainer, it's about the audience. With a car like the Emira, Lotus should be making this a magical journey to be involved with both it and them as a company. The car certainly looks the part, and I'm sure once we see the actual reviews next month, we'll hear about how magical it is to drive, but what about everything else?

Maybe they could get Scott Walker to do a video series, escorting us around and through the history of Lotus leading up to today. There is SUCH potential for entertainment and a magical adventure here if only they'd realize that and tap into it. Get Emerson Fittipaldi, Mario Andretti, and perhaps some other notables who have been part of the Lotus legacy, and have Scott interview them as he's taking them through the factory. Maybe get Clive Chapman in on this as he takes those notable drivers to see the very cars they drove in the glory days of Lotus in Formula 1.

There's such a rich history to showcase as you bring people through the past, into the present and show the future of Lotus of tomorrow.

I get it that they're making a car, but there's so much more they could do to enhance that and make the company be something people want to be associated with. Make the company be an adventure, an experience as well as a company that makes great cars.

 

[JXJ]

Manual V6 with sports suspension
Nimbus with red leather, lower blackpack
Black gloss wheels
Privacy glass
Homelink

Nice

 

[EspritGuy]

It's surprising how many companies, even big ones, seem to have no idea how to interact with people, much less their customers. They appear to think customer interaction only applies to sales and service, so they leave that to the sales people, who are there to sell you something. If you ask or try to ask anything from corporate, you get a wooden response if any at all.

Nobody seems to understand the value and fun of entertainment in the business world, unless it's specifically entertainment. Real entertainment isn't about the entertainer, it's about the audience. With a car like the Emira, Lotus should be making this a magical journey to be involved with both it and them as a company. The car certainly looks the part, and I'm sure once we see the actual reviews next month, we'll hear about how magical it is to drive, but what about everything else?

Maybe they could get Scott Walker to do a video series, escorting us around and through the history of Lotus leading up to today. There is SUCH potential for entertainment and a magical adventure here if only they'd realize that and tap into it. Get Emerson Fittipaldi, Mario Andretti, and perhaps some other notables who have been part of the Lotus legacy, and have Scott interview them as he's taking them through the factory. Maybe get Clive Chapman in on this as he takes those notable drivers to see the very cars they drove in the glory days of Lotus in Formula 1.

There's such a rich history to showcase as you bring people through the past, into the present and show the future of Lotus of tomorrow.

I get it that they're making a car, but there's so much more they could do to enhance that and make the company be something people want to be associated with. Make the company be an adventure, an experience as well as a company that makes great cars.

Wow.. Wisdom that should be headed.
I'm still waiting for the fabled March update. So many media previews to brag about. Production milestone.. Sample car photos.
It's like someone imposed a gag order.
Meanwhile the 132 takes center stage.

 

[Climber]

Wow.. Wisdom that should be headed.
I'm still waiting for the fabled March update. So many media previews to brag about. Production milestone.. Sample car photos.
It's like someone imposed a gag order.
Meanwhile the 132 takes center stage.

It’s amazing to hear people’s expectations when they haven’t been through it before. Bren understands this is normal and Lotus is doing a good job. First time we acquired a business, I went through the same emotions. However after the several acquisitions I was ok with the process and learned to use the timing and other’s frustration to make more. When climbing you never know what the weather will bring so you learn to enjoy the uncertainty. This waiting and not knowing it is what makes life interesting. I will be driving a new Emira sometime in the future. If it’s not enjoyable I will sell it, otherwise I believe it should age into a Icon like the Espirt, countach, 911, Ferrari 308 etc…
Chill manufacturing is a complicated process, if it takes longer that’s ok they are really trying to get it right.. these are really passionate people. I am personally impressed with the amount of transparency!!!

 

[Lotus-USFL]

Just got the bad news from Lotus Naples. I put a deposit down last August 2nd and didn't make the "cut" for a First Edition. They think I "may" get a car later half of 2023.