📓 Journals Adding Lightness

Eagle7 · 2025-08-05T07:24:56-0500

Brokenblinker said:
I appreciate that you believe there's some sort of learning going on over time. I'm not totally sure how that would work with the fact that people go in and get tunes on the dyno, and the idea is that they are leaving with a map that is fully functional. Maybe there are some tiny things still getting adjusted, but I believe them to be at the margins.

If you have the chance to go back, I would highly recommend starting with map 1 and doing back to back switching to map 0. I think that would be a much more valid experiment.

There's a difference between someone getting a dyno tune map done for their car while it's live on the dyno, and downloading a pre-built map into your ECU that hasn't been sitting on the dyno getting adjusted live. If you watched the video with mr.suntorytime's car being tuned, I believe it was a 2 day event, with Kyle (I think that was his name) making adjustments live, thinking about things over night, and making more adjustments the next day. He was making adjustments to the adjustments the ECU was making as he was making adjustments.

I appreciate you wanting a live Map 0/Map 1 comparison, but I'm not sure how much lingering effect the ECU would have to having been adjusting to Map 1 for 100 miles, and suddenly it's removed. I'm not going to be using Map 0 for any reason unless there was a fault code or some kind of issue (there hasn't been), or perhaps an emissions test requirement years in the future.

The dyno shop is only charging me a single flat fee for a dyno run, not a tune session which is an hourly charge and would cost a lot more. I just wanted a snapshot of what my car is doing now, versus what it was doing the last time I was there. My initial impression the first time I used Map 1 the day I got it installed was that there was more torque, and that's what the dyno chart shows. There was at least that much instant change.

I can tell you that over the last week, I've started noticing a steady and continuing change in the exhaust tone each time I drive the car, so something is slowly changing over time. A few nights ago I thought the tone was slightly different, but yesterday on the way to and back from the dyno shop, I really noticed there's now a very distinct change. It sounds more like a growl now, which it never did before. It's been a boomy roar ever since I installed the @Aerie Ti muffler. It didn't growl the first time I switched to Map 1, so this is a new development (it's great by the way).

What I think this shows, since my car has and has always had the 3rd cat in place, is that the factory exhaust is quite restrictive which holds back performance. It looks like based on mrsuntorytime's chart versus mine, that there is a performance gain at the upper rpms without the 3rd cat. Every run on my car, from stock onwards, shows basically the same performance once you reach about 4,800 rpm no matter what I've done to the car. I'm now thinking of getting a 3rd cat delete as an experiment to see if I can feel any different above 4,800. I never deleted it because I don't want the car louder, but if it's not too much, it may be worth living with.

What this car really needs is a true dual exhaust system, and after studying it, I think it may be possible now that Burger can adjust the tune. I'm sure @Aerie could and would be able to do it (not sure what the cost would be), I just wish they weren't so slow at responding and getting things done. It takes months just to get a set of wheels. I can't imagine how long it would take to get a custom, never-before-built dual exhaust system.

Thank you for looking at my thread though, and commenting. I appreciate your interest!

sbproducer · 2025-08-05T12:40:11-0500

Man, this is a great thread. Much appreciated! Read all 21 pages in one sitting.

sbproducer · 2025-08-05T12:43:27-0500

I would like to add that I've been preaching about the Eventuri intake.. It really is great and I noticed a difference immediately. I actually got the GRP third cat delete and run stock valve controller. I drive exclusively in track mode and the car is not loud at all at low rpm in my opinion. It sounds amazing above 5000 rpm and does get a little loud.

I got the intake and cat delete installed at the same time so can't really make a comparison there.

Tomwa · 2025-08-05T12:49:03-0500

I just don't think there is anything that supports the idea that the ECU is "learning" and changing its parameters over time. This seems like a 'voodoo' statement.

The change in your exhaust is not related to something the ECU is doing outside of some differences between cold-start/warm up and full operating conditions. Any other change in tone is more reasonably prescribed to changes in weather or some sort of change to the Ti itself as it settles into its heat-cycling.

There is no reason to "Fear" or be somehow concerned that there will be an adverse affect of moving to Map 0. This is literally a straight pass-through of the sensor data with no changing of the MAP information being passed to the ECU.

Claims that the ECU is learning to ignore data from sensors because it is not aligning to other data from other sensors. Specifically the case would have to be made that it is going to ignore Intake data (MAF/IAT/MAP) in favor of good exhaust data coming from the o2 Sensors which are likely narrowband and not really that robust. This would be extremely odd behavior and very dangerous for an ECU, to effectively 'ignore' or treat as 'bad' data coming from any of the inputs.

Even if that is the 'claim' that the engine control has learned to do this. What is the risk of dropping back into Map 0? that it will... what get now a "reliable" signal from the sensors it is otherwise self modifying/ignoring? If the engine is 'capable' of running with partial sensor data and relying on the o2 sensors, that doesn't change if you un-modify the signals on intake side.