4-point harness

[lotuspassion]

Hi guys
I was thinking, given how the new seats of the lotus emira are built, will it be possible to install a 4-point harness to have fun on the track with maximum safety?
it seems impossible because there are no spaces in the seats .......

 

[2Lotus]

Hi guys
I was thinking, given how the new seats of the lotus emira are built, will it be possible to install a 4-point harness to have fun on the track with maximum safety?
it seems impossible because there are no spaces in the seats .......

Good question, I plan on doing 4-5 track days a year.

 

[timbo999]

My advice would be... be careful. Fitting 4 point harness without a roll cage can be dangerous as if the car turns over and the roof is crushed you can't get out of the way as you can with ordinary seat belts. Just my tuppence worth after 20 years of track days.

 

[Wolfram]

I would say definitely not with the standard seats. The general consensus seems to be, however, that a standard four point harness is very dangerous compared to a standard three point seat belt, for a number of reasons, including:

1. In a frontal impact, your body will submarine under the lap belt which will pull up, with your soft lower abdomen taking the full force of the impact. This can cause devastating internal injury.

2. Your shoulders are immobilised, so the full forward force of the impact is on your neck, which will snap forwards (remember the additional weight of your helmet) - if you are not wearing a HANS device.

My Elise has a four point harness (badly) fitted; I have never used it. Schroth Racing do make a four point anti-submarining harness that addresses the safety concerns by allowing one shoulder to rotate forwards in an impact - exactly the characteristic that makes a standard three point belt so safe and effective. I'm thinking of maybe getting these fitted.

 

[shinoo]

My advice would be... be careful. Fitting 4 point harness without a roll cage can be dangerous as if the car turns over and the roof is crushed you can't get out of the way as you can with ordinary seat belts. Just my tuppence worth after 20 years of track days.

The Emira has a Roll Bar that would prevent the roof from caving in - partially. This bar is located close enough to the occupants heads that it would protect them in a roll over.

I started doing track days in the early 90s with BMWCCA so have seen normal unibody cars with crushed roofs. The Emira chassis construction is different and quite safe thanks to the rollbar. The CG is pretty low so rolling the car will also be dificult.

 

[shinoo]

... Schroth Racing do make a four point anti-submarining harness that addresses the safety concerns by allowing one shoulder to rotate forwards in an impact - exactly the characteristic that makes a standard three point belt so safe and effective. I'm thinking of maybe getting these fitted.

You are correct, the Schroth ASM 4pt belts are the safest on the market. We have safely installed them onto Lotus Elise/Exige/Evora for years with excellent results. We offer hardware to make installing these belts much easier and allow you to retain the 3pt stock belt.

I use and recommend these 4pt belts. Running your stock 3pt belt over the top is another consideration if you looking for the maximum protection.

 

[netsinah]

Even though your website doesn't list these 4pt belts as compatible with the Emira, I take it they are, given your post on the thread. Can you post photos showing the Emira install, in use with the 3pt OEM system?

Given #2 in the post above by Wolfram, do you recommend a HANS device and if so, which one would work with the Schroth 4pt belt system? I know the Simpson Hybrid S is the only HANS device compatible with a 3pt OEM system.

 

[KAR120C]

The Schroth 4pt works on the same principle as a 3 point. One shoulder rolls forward, keeping you from submarining and allowing the airbag to do it's work. No need for a HANS. Any other 4, 5, or 6 pt harness requires a HANS to prevent your neck from snapping.

 

[shinoo]

Even though your website doesn't list these 4pt belts as compatible with the Emira, I take it they are, given your post on the thread. Can you post photos showing the Emira install, in use with the 3pt OEM system?

Given #2 in the post above by Wolfram, do you recommend a HANS device and if so, which one would work with the Schroth 4pt belt system? I know the Simpson Hybrid S is the only HANS device compatible with a 3pt OEM system.

Fitting the Schroth 4pt is our next step now that our QUADloc Harnessbar is in production. We will post up pix once we have done it.

This picture show the 3pt pivot connected to the stock location with our QUADloc.

Yes, a HANs device is a smart device to use on track. These 4pt Schroth are compliant with HANs. There are new neck/head restraints solutions as shown: HERE These look really interesting and I plan to order one to compare to my HANs.

 

[geoffbland]

You are correct, the Schroth ASM 4pt belts are the safest on the market. We have safely installed them onto Lotus Elise/Exige/Evora for years with excellent results. We offer hardware to make installing these belts much easier and allow you to retain the 3pt stock belt.

I use and recommend these 4pt belts. Running your stock 3pt belt over the top is another consideration if you looking for the maximum protection.

The Schroth 4pt works on the same principle as a 3 point. One shoulder rolls forward, keeping you from submarining and allowing the airbag to do it's work. No need for a HANS. Any other 4, 5, or 6 pt harness requires a HANS to prevent your neck from snapping.

OK this is clever. How does this "shoulder roll" work? Is there something rip stitching, or stretchable fabric that allows one of the shoulder straps to lengthen in a crash - or is it some kind of friction fitting that only allows the strap to slip out in a crash? One of the big drawbacks of 4 point harnesses is being able to see over the passenger side at T-junctions, so if on "normal" roads I leave one shoulder loose - I'm assuming that the Schroth 4pt only does not help with this and only works in a crash.