vs Cayman GT4 RS - Competition?

[~el~jefe~]

Love this Islander! “Mofo” hahaha

What is “notable value” exactly?

I am hoping it holds value, which to me means it at least won’t depreciate. Like a Jeep Rubicon or certain Vettes. They “hold their value”.

#ForTheMofos

i think that is fair. At some point it will not depreciate, float around a bit. I am not certain if the look though is timeless enough. Porsche 718 and 911 have a timeless look to them. I mean, I am buying an Emira, I just am not confident that it anything more than a personal investment vs. universal one. I think Lotus cars held in value due to enthusiasts wanting them and them being so rare in the USA. 35,000 Emiras and eh, dont know.

 

[DJS]

I’ve lost more money on Porsches than any other cars I’ve owned maybe that’s the downside of always buying brand new.

I know times have changed with what’s going on in the world but it annoys me when people say Porsches hold their value.

In my experience only in the last couple of years have Porsches really held their value. To hold its value in the past it would need to be a GT car or a collectible.

The Emira will only lose its value if Lotus decide to significantly up the 4,800 a year they intend to build worldwide which due to demand they may well do.

 

[Andrew]

If you take into consideration car running costs, insurance, inflation etc, even if a car 'holds its value' well you still lose A LOT of money, especially on exotic / sports cars.
So the 'holding value' is an invalid argument in my opinion, more likely will be 'losing a little less money'. : )

Therefore we should just get the cars we like and enjoy them because we'll lose money anyway !

 

[~el~jefe~]

I agree that it is possible, if they really made that new assembly line well.

Toyota gearbox and engine has the potential to be a forever thing. i hope they dont have a weak link somewhere. Some item that was designed incorrectly due to strange mid-engine layout. Some entertainment system part that sucks the schlong.

But, yes it could be MUCH cheaper to own than a Cayman 718 as a daily driver.

 

[Porter]

Also the Lotus is far less likely to do this:

See also: https://www.google.com/search?q=porsche+gt4+strut+tower+failure&tbm=isch

 

[Jonno]

Not a good start for Porsche. The check engine light is already on in the AutoTrader review.

I'm sure the car is fantastic, but I really do wonder about the maintenance costs. And those centrelock wheels, no thanks! I don't want to replace rims (esp. magnesium rims), centrelock bearings, hubs and wheel carrier mechanisms as "wear and tear" or service items.

View attachment 4068

Good comments there #digilotus.
The GT4RS is a serious track oriented machine, and if used as such will have serious running costs to match. Those GT3 suspension components wear quickly and are hideously expensive to replace.
The GT4RS cannot be compared to the Emira, it is a wholly different proposition........and mere mortals won't be able to buy one anyways. Yes, fantastic car, but for general fast road use, and road trips in one of the most beautiful cars of recent years, the Emira will spank it! For me anyway

 

[HoweBank]

To be fair - what a car!!

IF one coujld get it for list at £108k then yes, it has to be a contender for anyone's money buy I suspect these will not be buyable for you and me for less than about £200K on release. 😒

Competition. Well, not really. This is faster and more track orientated.

What it does do is make the Emira look great value again.

I dont wish to be rude but unless you are spending regular serious money with porsche, I personally believe you should not compare the GT4RS with the Emira. For one I dont believe you will be able to get one and the price for a second hand one will be near double the sale price judging by historical demand mark ups on such cars. most of these cars are sadly garage queen trophies for investors..

just my opinion having tried to buy a gen 2 GT3 991.2 some time ago

 

[NicolasB]

Slightly off topic, but...

Back in 2008 I was working for Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach, FL. I was one of their top technicians at the time, and one of our favorite things was to get cars to PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection). One night, 3 of us stayed after hours to PDI three GT3RS cars that had just came in. We had to take all the plastics off, check them over, etc. Then, as part of every PDI, you take them out, put a half-tank of gas in them, and make sure they "drive properly".

Imagine three guys in their late 20's, flying down the highway in BRAND NEW GT3RS cars...yellow, lime green and white. They were AMAZING and sounded so good. Carbon ceramic brakes are unbelievable, and the throttle response on those cars is incredible. That was one of the greatest experiences I can remember. Another was being driven around Road Atlanta in a GT3 with coilovers and Cup2's...OMG. I have not been in the technician realm since 2009 or so, but it certainly had its fun days. Sometimes we would have 6 Carrera GT's in the shop at one time!

 

[~el~jefe~]

Slightly off topic, but...

Back in 2008 I was working for Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach, FL. I was one of their top technicians at the time, and one of our favorite things was to get cars to PDI (Pre-Delivery Inspection). One night, 3 of us stayed after hours to PDI three GT3RS cars that had just came in. We had to take all the plastics off, check them over, etc. Then, as part of every PDI, you take them out, put a half-tank of gas in them, and make sure they "drive properly".

Imagine three guys in their late 20's, flying down the highway in BRAND NEW GT3RS cars...yellow, lime green and white. They were AMAZING and sounded so good. Carbon ceramic brakes are unbelievable, and the throttle response on those cars is incredible. That was one of the greatest experiences I can remember. Another was being driven around Road Atlanta in a GT3 with coilovers and Cup2's...OMG. I have not been in the technician realm since 2009 or so, but it certainly had its fun days. Sometimes we would have 6 Carrera GT's in the shop at one time!

nice piston rings never seating ever for the life of the exotic car job. sucks for the owner

 

[NicolasB]

nice piston rings never seating ever for the life of the exotic car job. sucks for the owner

They didn't worry about breaking them in. I am sure they run them in at the factory adequately. We never had any cars with engine problems, was always dead batteries from not being driven, or charcoal canister emissions crap, day in and day out.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Also the Lotus is far less likely to do this:
View attachment 4234

See also: https://www.google.com/search?q=porsche+gt4+strut+tower+failure&tbm=isch

Strut tower failure on 718 GT4 is extremely rare. So rare in fact I do not recall seeing it on RL at all. I had to google it. The only cases I can find are from people admitting they hit potholes at high speeds and have aftermarket wheels (not sure if a factor) + adjustments made on the camber/toe.

It was an issue on the 981 GT4, although it was not common there either. You are picking a rare issue, where there are also issues on a Lotus that can be picked out such as the cracked roof panel which resulted in that one guy whose roof literally flew off on the interstate while he was driving.

The point is, all cars, especially cars that are taken to the track can have problems. Depending on the driver and how they take care of the car and the backstory (which we do not know), its really not a good indicator of the cars reliability. Picking out this issue doesn't really seem fair, and especially comparing it to a brand like Lotus, which is not really known for its reliability seems like a slippery slope.

 

[Porter]

Strut tower failure on 718 GT4 is extremely rare. So rare in fact I do not recall seeing it on RL at all. I had to google it. The only cases I can find are from people admitting they hit potholes at high speeds and have aftermarket wheels (not sure if a factor) + adjustments made on the camber/toe.

It was an issue on the 981 GT4, although it was not common there either. You are picking a rare issue, where there are also issues on a Lotus that can be picked out such as the cracked roof panel which resulted in that one guy whose roof literally flew off on the interstate while he was driving.

The point is, all cars, especially cars that are taken to the track can have problems. Depending on the driver and how they take care of the car and the backstory (which we do not know), its really not a good indicator of the cars reliability. Picking out this issue doesn't really seem fair, and especially comparing it to a brand like Lotus, which is not really known for its reliability seems like a slippery slope.

I hear what you are saying, but it's not a rare issue. There are dozens of posts like this with pics of strut tower failure on a specific year range of recent Porsches, I believe particularly with the 991 911 and 981 Cayman/Boxster. It was a design issue. On the 992 they reinforced the strut tower significantly and don't seem to be having the same problems any longer.

I'm not saying that Porsches are poorly designed... quite the opposite. They are an absolutely world-class product that places engineering very centrally in the brand's values. What I was alluding to is that the assumption that all Porsches will automatically deliver some sort of legendary reliability and ownership experience (and therefore should go up in value forever) because of their categorically uncompromising engineering approach simply doesn't fully hold up in the real world. The brand halo being extended to their standard products from the GT program is kind of wild... it's caused used values to skyrocket on cars that don't necessarily meet all of the same expectations for zero-compromise build quality. Are they wonderful cars? Yes! Are they the absolute nadir of automotive quality in all cases on every product? No. They have product problems and challenges like any brand. And they're still better than 95% of other automotive products on the market.

Lotus are also a remarkably engineering-led firm, though with a different approach and thought process compared to Porsche, and I believe that the enthusiast market has finally genuinely woken up to that fact. I mean, certainly they aren't likely to experience this sort of chassis-related issue (structural failure!), because Lotus has made remarkably uncompromising design choices in their fundamental chassis architecture. Every brand makes compromises somewhere in the engineering process, it's just a matter of where... and in the case of Lotus, it's almost certainly not in the chassis. It remains to be seen where they've had to cut corners on the Emira. Hopefully it's not somewhere that will result in a poor set of typical owner experiences. I'm remaining optimistic, and I fully expect Emira values to hold well over time if the general owner feedback around the world is free from mechanical and electrical gremlins.