U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date

[Eagle7]

This is a vital discussion with many viewpoints that can only be addressed/resolved by Lotus. The matter is far more clear for FE orders within the first 700 grants.. I believe we will have pricing news by December 1st.
What was once an exciting process has become exhausting (to me). A morsel here and there and not the meal.

Yeah I totally hear ya. If there were simply production delays for cars that they'd already been producing, that would be one thing, but we've been on the journey of going from concept to validation to production. And we've all had to go through this during some of the most difficult times the world has experienced since World War 2. It has been and is exhausting, for everyone including Lotus. I can't imagine the heartburn of trying to do what they've been trying to do under these circumstances.

The good news is the car looks like it's going to be worth the wait, and once we have our cars, we'll all have war stories to tell about what it took to get one.

 

[Eagle7]

I don't disagree that the contractural obligations from making a deposit to become a reservation holder to a confirmed allocation / build slot has different implications. Both are customers from a legal standpoint is my only point. Either a customer from Lotus HQ if your in the UK and placed it directly with them, or your local dealer in the US and become a customer of that dealership.

Well then we've probably been in agreement all along and didn't realize it. Good enough.

 

[Lotustoronto]

He is a customer of the dealer, not Lotus. Lotus never required a non refundable deposit. If he looks at his contract the 2 parties are him and his dealer, not Lotus Cars US or Lotus UK.

Why is he not a customer of both? Did lotus not send him a customer number (submission ID) that he can use to contact Lotus Customer Service in the UK for questions like many of us have? He doesn't call the Lotus reservation holders phone number. He is a customer of both. The dealer should have made his deposit refundable, I don't disagree, but this is the disaster of North American dealership laws at the moment.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Based on this:
View attachment 9114View attachment 9115
View attachment 9111
Based on the fact that Lotus specifically states you are NOT guaranteed a car, it's the second definition... simply a person of a specific kind that one has to deal with.

lol we are all slippery customers at the moment haha.. Except for the 700 F/E guys, not as slippery.

 

[Magma]

Gosh guys...it makes me sad that this once amicable group has gotten to the point of bickering over the definition of what a "customer" is. A war between eternal optimists and pessimists, it seems. I will say I do tend toward the pessimistic side of things.
Honestly, I don't know how any of us could assume to know what Matt's words truly mean. All we can do is insert our own speculations (and in many cases selfish hopes) as to deciphering what he says and how it will effect us. The reasons for that are because some of the things he's said over the past year have turned out not to be the case in the long run. Not necessarily his fault, just the way things have turned out.

That said...I do consider myself a customer. However, I have no illusions that any price stated yesterday, today, or tomorrow (I don't care if Matt swears on the Holy Bible in his next video!) will be same by the time my number finally comes up.

 

[Eagle7]

Gosh guys...it makes me sad that this once amicable group has gotten to the point of bickering over the definition of what a "customer" is. A war between eternal optimists and pessimists, it seems. I will say I do tend toward the pessimistic side of things.
Honestly, I don't know how any of us could assume to know what Matt's words truly mean. All we can do is insert our own speculations (and in many cases selfish hopes) as to deciphering what he says and how it will effect us. The reasons for that are because some of the things he's said over the past year have turned out not to be the case in the long run. Not necessarily his fault, just the way things have turned out.

That said...I do consider myself a customer. However, I have no illusions that any price stated yesterday, today, or tomorrow (I don't care if Matt swears on the Holy Bible in his next video!) will be same by the time my number finally comes up.

There are different levels and types of customers. The conversation in this thread about that was in regards to who Matt was referring to when he made a promise that Lotus would hold to the price they originally stated when people were making their deposits and placing orders.

In the U.K. that's especially important since everyone there has to buy directly from Lotus. For us here in the U.S. it's slightly different. The dealers are the ones who actually order and buy cars from Lotus; we then buy them from the dealer. We can order a car through a dealer which is a commitment for a specific car and configuration, but they still have to place the order.

This is where it gets different for us. The price we pay is based on the currency exchange rate between the U.S. Dollar and the British Pound, as well as any import duties, taxes, fees etc. Matt's promise to hold to the quoted price doesn't mean the price to us here can't or won't change. Right now the exchange rate is swinging in our favor; the dollar is gaining in strength against the pound. That means we may actually pay less than what we thought we were back in the fall of last year. At the moment the dollar is valued at $1.08 to the British pound. That means it takes $1.08 U.S. to equal the buying power of 1 pound. If that holds or gets even better, we should see a noticeable reduction in the price we pay when we pick up our cars.

Back in September 2021, the exchange rate was about $1.37 against the pound. The Emira's price of £59,995 was converting to about $82k U.S. at that time. With today's rate, £59,995 converts to about $65k U.S., so Lotus holding the quoted price is going to mean something different here than it does in the U.K. That's how much stronger the dollar is now against the pound than it was back then. Those who are getting an FE in the U.S. should see quite a drop in the price compared to what we were told a year ago. The original quoted FE price of £75,995 would convert today to $82,504. Back then it was $93,900.

This is something I need to talk to my dealer about. The agreement I signed was for $93,900 but if the exchange rate has improved, I want to know if that affects the sale price to me. It certainly would to the dealer, and I hope they won't try to sneak in a profit grab by keeping the difference.

 

[digilotus]

If you want the price to change with exchange rate you should have agreed to a purchase price in pounds and not USD.

I bet that should the exchange rate situation be reversed (in that you would need to pay more for the car in USD) that you wouldn’t be very happy about that and argue that you’ve entered an agreement to purchase at a specific price in USD.

If Lotus changes the US MSRP based on the new exchange rate, then you might have a case. Otherwise I expect that the importer (not necessarily dealer) will pocket the change.

 

[Eagle7]

I've sent an email to my dealer inquiring about this. It's going to be interesting to see what he has to say.

 

[RENDERMAN]

I think if they turn around and say the price is $109K, we will beat the Israelites as a mass exodus!!

 

[Lotustoronto]

If you want the price to change with exchange rate you should have agreed to a purchase price in pounds and not USD.

I bet that should the exchange rate situation be reversed (in that you would need to pay more for the car in USD) that you wouldn’t be very happy about that and argue that you’ve entered an agreement to purchase at a specific price in USD.

If Lotus changes the US MSRP based on the new exchange rate, then you might have a case. Otherwise I expect that the importer (not necessarily dealer) will pocket the change.

Does Australia have the Base MSRP Emira price quoted online?

Also they are changing the US pricing for the base and i4 F/E, we are just trying to speculate why? Is it a global price increase form Lotus UK? Exchange rate? Inflation? The change is happening, just nobody know which way. There is justification for both an increase and a decrease. Something that does not happen very often.

 

[Cachaco131]

if we had the UK model where we work directly with Lotus I would agree… but we don’t. I bet you anything Lotus USA and/or dealers pocket that difference in exchange rate. It’s to make up lost revenue from earlier Lotus targets... Lack of supply. Dealers have invested in Lotus to only wait just like us.

I could not disagree more. Lotus USA and dealers are not in the FX business, they probably would suck at it. And it cuts both ways, they could get it very wrong. I'm pretty sure a lot of the supply chain costs and parts are USD denominated and Lotus corporate has their CFO managing FX risks. Using swaps and fwds.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I could not disagree more. Lotus USA and dealers are not in the FX business, they probably would suck at it. And it cuts both ways, they could get it very wrong. I'm pretty sure a lot of the supply chain costs and parts are USD denominated and Lotus corporate has their CFO managing FX risks. Using swaps and fwds.

Yes the FX clauses in any contracts would be between Lotus USA and Lotus UK/HQ. Not any individual dealers.

** Lotus USA is owned by Lotus HQ, so it basically an internal contract.

 

[Guest142]

Yes the FX clauses in any contracts would be between Lotus USA and Lotus UK/HQ. Not any individual dealers.

** Lotus USA is owned by Lotus HQ, so it basically an internal contract.

I believe this is correct. Yes.

 

[TomE]

I stepped away from this thread for 24 hours to take the Exige for a drive and look at a load of cars, and it's become the most active thread of the week - 70 posts in 24 hours!

Attempting to summarise:

• We're all Lotus customers, or some of us are, or none are
• Lotus made a promise to some customers, or all of them, or just a subset but we're not sure which subset
• Which country you live in probably has a bearing on it
• In the US, which state you live in might have a bearing on it too
• Outside the UK, which dealer you're dealing with almost certainly has a bearing on it
• In the UK, we're all in the same boat as each other ... or are we?
• Whatever promise we think Lotus might have made in June, the world economic situation has got more complicated since then
• Lotus could change their mind, citing the above, and there's very little we can do about it
• Exchange rates work in ways you don't always expect (over 50% of my company's revenue is in USD but because of how we account for it we now have an adverse FX effect until year end, but my UK-based business is worth more today than a month ago)
• The phone lines and email inboxes at dealers worldwide and of Lotus USA and Lotus HQ are going to be busy tomorrow...

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

Good summary Tom!

I'm still not sure if I'm a customer.

We are just fish 🤣

 

[Cachaco131]

I stepped away from this thread for 24 hours to take the Exige for a drive and look at a load of cars, and it's become the most active thread of the week - 70 posts in 24 hours!

Attempting to summarise:

• We're all Lotus customers, or some of us are, or none are
• Lotus made a promise to some customers, or all of them, or just a subset but we're not sure which subset
• Which country you live in probably has a bearing on it
• In the US, which state you live in might have a bearing on it too
• Outside the UK, which dealer you're dealing with almost certainly has a bearing on it
• In the UK, we're all in the same boat as each other ... or are we?
• Whatever promise we think Lotus might have made in June, the world economic situation has got more complicated since then
• Lotus could change their mind, citing the above, and there's very little we can do about it
• Exchange rates work in ways you don't always expect (over 50% of my company's revenue is in USD but because of how we account for it we now have an adverse FX effect until year end, but my UK-based business is worth more today than a month ago)
• The phone lines and email inboxes at dealers worldwide and of Lotus USA and Lotus HQ are going to be busy tomorrow...

The level of activity in this thread is inversely proportional to the Factory Tour one, where we have been promised NDA-bound, MNPI, highly sensitive data from the "impromptu", all access meeting with Lotus and Geely senior line up!

 

[TomE]

We are just fish 🤣

But some are more slippery than others...

 

[Pops68]

Placing a refundable deposit indicates you're a potential customer with a strong interest to possibly buy. As a salesperson, you would see that person as a strong prospect, but they don't become a full-fledged customer until an actual order is placed with a down payment commitment that's non-refundable. At that point, you are now a buying customer, not just someone who is interested.

Ha you stated it perfectly, much better than I did.

 

[Pops68]

Ok, this is the last time I am going to bring this up, and yes there a first depositors in the US that made non-refundable deposits. Search the forum, @ksegg I believe is one of them.

Eagle7 - you are giving your opinion of what a customer is to you, and that is fine. However, legally when someone places a deposit for goods or services, you are entering into an agreement with that customer. Sometimes a deposit is refundable, sometimes it is not, even at auto dealerships. This depends on the agreed terms to said deposit. You can not make an incorrect blanket statement that depositors are not legally customers, as that is completely false. Depositers are considered consumers and most certainly are protected under consumer law. This is not debatable from a legal standpoint. It is fact.

The second you place a deposit for anything you become a customer - the deposit acts as an agreement to purchase. Not the same as your Bill of sale or Final Purchase contract.

Let me ask you this question -Assume you place a 10K deposit for a Porsche GT3 at the dealer, 6 months later they never call you for an allocation, so you go back to get it refunded. They then refuse to give you back your deposit. What do you do? Let me guess... Take them to court and fight for its return. Guess what laws protect you in that situation since the dealership broke its end of the refundable deposit agreement? CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS, because you're a customer. FML

At the risk of beating this poor dead horse some more, just read the agreement. All the terms should be spelled out clearly and you should be able to discern whether or not you have a binding contract. After that If you choose to call yourself a customer and not a "potential" customer then have at it. I don't think anyone really cares. Not this much anyway..

 

[GatorMotorsport]

Hello everyone,

I hope you have all been well and enjoyed the holidays!

Based on our last communication a few months back, the time has come for U.S. production of FE V6 Emira and Base V6 Emira orders to commence. I have actively been contacting Lotus Cars USA over the last few weeks for an update and have received little to no word thus far. Finally, yesterday evening I received the following response:

" We understand the dealer network and clients are anxiously waiting for production updates on Emira. Our team is working diligently to gather information to provide the most accurate update. Our Head of Sales will be traveling to the UK next week to get clarity on the current production situation. Once he meets with the appropriate teams, we can update our network.

We understand the lack of communication has been frustrating, but we want to ensure it is the most accurate and recent information. As always, we appreciate our network's patience and willingness to work with us. "

Sorry to send you an update about a future update, but real information is coming! I'll keep you all informed as I receive more news. If you have any questions, please please please call me directly at (317) 245-6312. I cannot respond to everyone's emails as quickly as I'd like.

I'll be in touch again soon!

Tony Pechiney
INDY LOTUS
GATOR MOTORSPORT
3353 W 96th St.
Indianapolis, IN 46268
Office: 855.428.6767
Direct: 317.245.6312
Email: [email protected]


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