Still won’t start any suggestions?

[Markc]

Friday afternoon. Car seemed fine. Then wouldn’t start.
AA attended couldn’t get it going either.
Recovered home over the weekend

No recent software updates done
I recharged battery, and tried disconnecting and reconnecting
I’ve tried both keys
I haven’t renewed my tracker subscription, phoned scorpion and they said there weren’t any issues

It makes a quiet hum when I press the start button
AA will need to take my car to the dealer (it’s due to have warranty work and service done).

Anything else I can try? Thank you

 

[nimbusblack]

did you disconnect battery for over 30 mins? try putting the fob in the arm rest console area and try starting.

i dont believe there is anything tracker related that could stop the car actually starting but maybe they can put you on a trial renew for a few days?

get it to the dealer asap so dealer can fix it and then when it happens to the rest of us its a quicker fix

 

[Markc]

did you disconnect battery for over 30 mins? try putting the fob in the arm rest console area and try starting.

i dont believe there is anything tracker related that could stop the car actually starting but maybe they can put you on a trial renew for a few days?

get it to the dealer asap so dealer can fix it and then when it happens to the rest of us its a quicker fix

Thank you for the reply. I’ve tried all of that apart from renewing the tracker. Dealership was coming to collect (next week) but as it now won’t start the AA have to come and get it and winch it onto a trailer

 

[Ftype]

Going by the numerous other posts citing the same problem this is a normal characteristic of the Emira and all part of the Lotus ownership experience .. I hope you soon get it resolved.

 

[Markc]

Going by the numerous other posts citing the same problem this is a normal characteristic of the Emira and all part of the Lotus ownership experience .. I hope you soon get it resolved.

Thank you. But mine hasn’t had the software update yet 🙄

 

[Kimmax]

Thank you. But mine hasn’t had the software update yet 🙄

I've had it before the update too, it just didn't happen as often..
Did you try attaching an extra ground connection somewhere?

 

[EspritGuy]

Friday afternoon. Car seemed fine. Then wouldn’t start.
AA attended couldn’t get it going either.
Recovered home over the weekend

No recent software updates done
I recharged battery, and tried disconnecting and reconnecting
I’ve tried both keys
I haven’t renewed my tracker subscription, phoned scorpion and they said there weren’t any issues

It makes a quiet hum when I press the start button
AA will need to take my car to the dealer (it’s due to have warranty work and service done).

Anything else I can try? Thank you

 

[Stealthinnimbus]

The quiet hum is the fuel pump. Sometimes mine was fine, sometimes not. Currently back with lotus for 2 weeks and counting “known software issue with no fix yet”

 

[Eagle7]

Check for grounding issues. Check the ground cables (cabling) to the engine, starter, ECU. Check to see if there's a fuse for the starter switch. If there's a relay from the battery to the starter, check to see if the relay is properly connected and grounded. Might even be a bad relay.

 

[Stealthinnimbus]

Check for grounding issues. Check the ground cables (cabling) to the engine, starter, ECU. Check to see if there's a fuse for the starter switch. If there's a relay from the battery to the starter, check to see if the relay is properly connected and grounded. Might even be a bad relay.

I mean thats all great, but we are talking about cars that have done less than 1000 miles, under warranty, and in my case back at the dealership and besides, if that is the solution then the service agent sought to be able to check that and fix pretty quickly, but that hasnt been the case.... i'm told its software and do with the sequence in which the ECU modules start and one being a bit slow sometimes, hence its intermittent

 

[DJS]

The quiet hum is the fuel pump. Sometimes mine was fine, sometimes not. Currently back with lotus for 2 weeks and counting “known software issue with no fix yet”

I had this for a little while and my fix worked every time.....

So when you hear the quiet hum lock the door while your in the car wait 15 seconds then unlock wait 5 seconds then put your foot on the brake and press the start button, the car should start first time.

Funny thing is I had this for 2 weeks and it has gone away on its own completely, someone else on this forum mentioned they think its something to do with water ingress and I agree as this happed to me straight after heavy usage of my pressure washer.

Be very careful when cleaning the Emira with high pressure try to turn it down as much as you can around the wheels and any of the vents.

Hope this helps.

 

[DerTheDer]

I had this for a little while and my fix worked every time.....

So when you hear the quiet hum lock the door while your in the car wait 15 seconds then unlock wait 5 seconds then put your foot on the brake and press the start button, the car should start first time.

Funny thing is I had this for 2 weeks and it has gone away on its own completely, someone else on this forum mentioned they think its something to do with water ingress and I agree as this happed to me straight after heavy usage of my pressure washer.

Be very careful when cleaning the Emira with high pressure try to turn it down as much as you can around the wheels and any of the vents.

Hope this helps.

If I had to do this process every time, I would refuse delivery of the vehicle. I would bring it back to dealer. That's unacceptable. Should be able to get in and start without a huge process.

 

[Eagle7]

I mean thats all great, but we are talking about cars that have done less than 1000 miles, under warranty, and in my case back at the dealership and besides, if that is the solution then the service agent sought to be able to check that and fix pretty quickly, but that hasnt been the case.... i'm told its software and do with the sequence in which the ECU modules start and one being a bit slow sometimes, hence its intermittent

The thing is, if you have two cars and they both have the same hardware and software, one has this issue and the other doesn't, then I don't see how that's the software. These modules are connected together via the wiring harness. Tell your dealer's technician(s) to check the integrity of the wiring, going point to point if necessary. Either something isn't tightened properly (ground connection), or it's been compromised through corrosion. Look for water access points where water and/or condensation moisture may have compromised a connection.

You haven't said it but I know you're thinking this shouldn't be happening on a brand new car, and you are absolutely correct. From my many years of owning sports cars, this sort of thing isn't all that unusual unfortunately. It sucks I know, but it tends to be part and parcel of sports car ownership, especially British sports cars.

Now that cars have all these computers and do so many more things than they used to, the added complexity has greatly increased the potential for issues. If you live near the dealer, then taking it there is the easy solution, except they often just let your car sit for days, weeks, etc. because the tech (they aren't just mechanics anymore) doesn't know what's wrong, and is waiting for the manufacturer to figure it out and tell them what to do. That works eventually, but if it's your only car, you can't really wait that long.

It's not a bad idea to become your own troubleshooting/diagnostic tech to some degree, and learn how to check for the obvious. I had a Toyota once that just didn't seem to run as well as I knew it should, so just as an idea, I took a jumper cable and connected the ground terminal of the battery directly to one of the bolts holding the ECU module to the firewall of the car. Instantly it started running like a sewing machine. Idled so smooth you could hardly tell it was running. I got a wiring kit (they're available) for doing your own wiring inside an engine compartment, and ran ground wires to the ECU, the engine, and a few other places. Car ran like a champ and never had a problem with it again. Should I have had to do that? No, but it fixed my car, and that's what I needed the most.

 

[Kimmax]

The thing is, if you have two cars and they both have the same hardware and software, one has this issue and the other doesn't, then I don't see how that's the software.

You’re overestimating Lotus software development capabilities. Also software never is just "works" or "doesn’t work", many seemingly small things can throw a complete process of track. Also the problem started to show up regularly after a specific sw update after all.. I've had it before but at most once every two months, after the update sometimes every day. Leads me to conclude they did many things in one update, resulting in different timing and now they can’t figure out what change specifically triggers the problem.

 

[Eagle7]

You’re overestimating Lotus software development capabilities. Also software never is just "works" or "doesn’t work", many seemingly small things can throw a complete process of track. Also the problem started to show up regularly after a specific sw update after all.. I've had it before but at most once every two months, after the update sometimes every day. Leads me to conclude they did many things in one update, resulting in different timing and now they can’t figure out what change specifically triggers the problem.

As someone who did beta testing for a few major software companies years ago, yeah software DOES just work unless there's a bug in it somewhere. That's what beta testing does; recognizing a bug, and then figure out how to replicate what it takes to cause the issue. You have to send in detailed reports to the software engineers, along with what to do to replicate the issue so they can know where to look in the software code base. That can be a real bear sometimes. I remember it took me about 6 months one time to finally figure out how to replicate a software bug that appeared to be random. You had to open certain programs in a certain order before doing anything else, to cause the bug to appear. If you did anything else first, or opened them in a different order, the bug didn't happen.

What's interesting in this situation is we have two instances of one without a software update, and one with, and both are exhibiting the same issues. It's something else other than just software, although it could be a function that software controls that's developing problems, like a hardware module or component of some kind. Could be corrosion causing electrical variance. Digital systems are not forgiving when it comes to voltage levels. A weakened ground, or lower voltage being supplied due to a corroded connection can cause a fault condition to flag in the software, so it may look like a software issue, but it's actually not. If the software is flagging a condition, it may actually be doing what it's supposed to do by throwing the flag. Check the function it flagged first before deciding the software is faulty.

Troubleshooting digital systems is such a pain and so time-consuming, especially when they're controlling non-digital electrical and/or hardware systems. I'm sure they'll figure it out, and hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Kimmax]

As someone who did beta testing for a few major software companies years ago, yeah software DOES just work unless there's a bug in it somewhere. That's what beta testing does; recognizing a bug, and then figure out how to replicate what it takes to cause the issue. You have to send in detailed reports to the software engineers, along with what to do to replicate the issue so they can know where to look in the software code base. That can be a real bear sometimes. I remember it took me about 6 months one time to finally figure out how to replicate a software bug that appeared to be random. You had to open certain programs in a certain order before doing anything else, to cause the bug to appear. If you did anything else first, or opened them in a different order, the bug didn't happen.

What's interesting in this situation is we have two instances of one without a software update, and one with, and both are exhibiting the same issues. It's something else other than just software, although it could be a function that software controls that's developing problems, like a hardware module or component of some kind. Could be corrosion causing electrical variance. Digital systems are not forgiving when it comes to voltage levels. A weakened ground, or lower voltage being supplied due to a corroded connection can cause a fault condition to flag in the software, so it may look like a software issue, but it's actually not. If the software is flagging a condition, it may actually be doing what it's supposed to do by throwing the flag. Check the function it flagged first before deciding the software is faulty.

Troubleshooting digital systems is such a pain and so time-consuming, especially when they're controlling non-digital electrical and/or hardware systems. I'm sure they'll figure it out, and hopefully sooner than later.

Yep, we’re on the same page. The two instances having the same problem is what leads me to believe it’s some kind of timing issue. As mentioned I also had the problem before the sw update, it just happens way more often after the update.
Since Lotus already mentioned it’s some (ABS iirc) module that’s not reacting / starting / connecting fast enough, I guess it was always on edge of triggering the bug. That ominous sw update changed something that shifted the timing of the "boot" process and now that module doesn’t keep up more regularly.
Yes, complex software is hard to get right. What I was going on is that Lotus hasn’t proved itself when it comes to testing throughly..

 

[Eagle7]

Yep, we’re on the same page. The two instances having the same problem is what leads me to believe it’s some kind of timing issue. As mentioned I also had the problem before the sw update, it just happens way more often after the update.
Since Lotus already mentioned it’s some (ABS iirc) module that’s not reacting / starting / connecting fast enough, I guess it was always on edge of triggering the bug. That ominous sw update changed something that shifted the timing of the "boot" process and now that module doesn’t keep up more regularly.
Yes, complex software is hard to get right. What I was going on is that Lotus hasn’t proved itself when it comes to testing throughly..

Lol I don't know that anybody tests that thoroughly anymore. When systems were far less complex they may have, but nowadays getting a product out the door takes priority over taking the time to thoroughly debug. Are you a gamer? Everybody uses their customers now to find the bugs, then issues updates to fix them, meanwhile products ship and revenue comes in.

There's a lot about this car that's a new world for Lotus, but they seem to be working through the issues to get the car right, which is a good thing at least.

The thing is with your issue and the few others who have it, not everyone has it. Those of you who do have this issue, there's something in common with your cars that isn't the case with the majority. To me that suggests an oxidized or slightly corroded connection somewhere, or something that's possibly not fastened down tight enough, or there's a substance that's interfering with a solid connection which is why there's a lag in the signal path. Have you guys tried to identify the production date range of cars that have this issue?

Whenever I was troubleshooting electrical issues, I always used a long jumper cable to create a direct ground from the battery to the grounding point of various sections and/or modules. You can usually isolate which section of wiring has the issue, or which module isn't grounded properly. Often it wasn't immediately obvious that a section was bad, or a module not grounded. Everything would look okay visually. Once testing revealed there was a problem, it would either be a wire that had rubbed through, or oxidation/corrosion underneath a connecting point, etc. Sometimes it was inside the cable connector. Even the connector for ground right at the battery negative terminal. I'd clean that and the terminal post itself first, and go from there. Once in awhile a fuse connection had gotten something in it and the fuse wasn't connecting cleanly.

As you said previously, lots of little things can be the cause. In the absence of an official fix from Lotus, I'd be going through and checking the small things I could in the meantime, in case I could either find or at least isolate where the cause might be. It could even be a module or component that came that way from the supplier. Lots of things were made during the Covid debacle that weren't up to normal standards.

I feel for you guy struggling through this. You're some of the heroes of the pioneer days of the new Lotus. At least now you have some stories you can tell your grandkids "Back in the last days of the ICE age, supposedly caused by global warming....." Who knew?

 

[Andrew P]

As someone who did beta testing for a few major software companies years ago, yeah software DOES just work unless there's a bug in it somewhere. That's what beta testing does; recognizing a bug, and then figure out how to replicate what it takes to cause the issue. You have to send in detailed reports to the software engineers, along with what to do to replicate the issue so they can know where to look in the software code base. That can be a real bear sometimes. I remember it took me about 6 months one time to finally figure out how to replicate a software bug that appeared to be random. You had to open certain programs in a certain order before doing anything else, to cause the bug to appear. If you did anything else first, or opened them in a different order, the bug didn't happen.

What's interesting in this situation is we have two instances of one without a software update, and one with, and both are exhibiting the same issues. It's something else other than just software, although it could be a function that software controls that's developing problems, like a hardware module or component of some kind. Could be corrosion causing electrical variance. Digital systems are not forgiving when it comes to voltage levels. A weakened ground, or lower voltage being supplied due to a corroded connection can cause a fault condition to flag in the software, so it may look like a software issue, but it's actually not. If the software is flagging a condition, it may actually be doing what it's supposed to do by throwing the flag. Check the function it flagged first before deciding the software is faulty.

Troubleshooting digital systems is such a pain and so time-consuming, especially when they're controlling non-digital electrical and/or hardware systems. I'm sure they'll figure it out, and hopefully sooner than later.

There may be more than 1 issue but the software update is 100% my issue - started 1st time every time before the update, then 2 weeks of never starting 1st time until software rolled back and 100% 1st time starting in the 2 months since

 

[Eagle7]

There may be more than 1 issue but the software update is 100% my issue - started 1st time every time before the update, then 2 weeks of never starting 1st time until software rolled back and 100% 1st time starting in the 2 months since

Okay, THAT'S valuable information. Good to know. Thanks!

 

[Stealthinnimbus]

Its all interesting feedback and the emira isnt my first rodeo or lotus. Ive had an elise for 10 years. But its a new car and i have no intention of diagnosing the fault myself despite my ability to do so. im a software engineer by trade… there is no excuse for releasing an update that causes a problem this severe. And if a rollback fixes it then there should be a recall of the update…

i except issues happen and no software is without fault but the lack of communication from lotus is unacceptable. If i didnt talk to my clients for 3 weeks i would fully expect to get fired