My trip to Hethel

[Rudolph]

Not inside the production facility as Scott was clear that was not allowed, outside there was a gleaming Hethel coloured car that looked great against the tarmac and the 3 Dutch cars, black, white and the horrible "moccasin" one. As I whipped out my phone Scott, said "put that away or you will get me shot"! laughing but he meant it.

* * * * *
Van der Kooi Sportscars, importer of Lotus in the Netherlands, among other things, reports that the CO2 emissions of the Emira with blown four-cylinder are a lot higher than expected. Initially, an average CO2 emission of 175 g/km was assumed, but that turns out to be 195 g/km. This of course has a consequence for the bpm. Van der Kooi Sportscars is aiming for a bpm amount of €23,581 and a price of €115,009 for the Lotus Emira I4 First Edition. Please note, according to the importer this is still an expected starting price, but it seems that the base price of the Emira will exceed €100,000.
The Emira I4 Turbocharged, as the four-cylinder version is called, sprints to 100 km/h in 4.2 seconds.
Lotus further supplies the car with a 405 hp and 420 Nm strong 3.5 V6 from Toyota, a six-cylinder with supercharger that helps the coupé reach a speed of 100 km/h in 4.3 seconds. As a First Edition, that car has an entry-level price of around €140,000.

 

[Porter]

* * * * *
Van der Kooi Sportscars, importer of Lotus in the Netherlands, among other things, reports that the CO2 emissions of the Emira with blown four-cylinder are a lot higher than expected. Initially, an average CO2 emission of 175 g/km was assumed, but that turns out to be 195 g/km. This of course has a consequence for the bpm. Van der Kooi Sportscars is aiming for a bpm amount of €23,581 and a price of €115,009 for the Lotus Emira I4 First Edition. Please note, according to the importer this is still an expected starting price, but it seems that the base price of the Emira will exceed €100,000.
The Emira I4 Turbocharged, as the four-cylinder version is called, sprints to 100 km/h in 4.2 seconds.
Lotus further supplies the car with a 405 hp and 420 Nm strong 3.5 V6 from Toyota, a six-cylinder with supercharger that helps the coupé reach a speed of 100 km/h in 4.3 seconds. As a First Edition, that car has an entry-level price of around €140,000.

Something seems quite "off" with those numbers. €115k? On a car that costs £72k in the UK? The base price converts to €86k, so where is the additional €29k coming from? Or is that €115k figure inclusive of bpm? I could see that... but if they're talking €115k PLUS €23,5k bpm for a €138.5k total, then they've lost the plot.

I don't know what they're talking about with the V6 FE price of €140k... that doesn't even remotely match the pricing delta between the I4 FE and V6 FE in other markets. It's a huge, huge disparity. Is this some sort of exclusive importer dealer markup situation, where they are taking advantage of a local market monopoly?

 

[digilotus]

Something seems quite "off" with those numbers. €115k? On a car that costs £72k in the UK? The base price converts to €86k, so where is the additional €29k coming from? Or is that €115k figure inclusive of bpm? I could see that... but if they're talking €115k PLUS €23,5k bpm for a €138.5k total, then they've lost the plot.

I don't know what they're talking about with the V6 FE price of €140k... that doesn't even remotely match the pricing delta between the I4 FE and V6 FE in other markets. It's a huge, huge disparity. Is this some sort of exclusive importer dealer markup situation, where they are taking advantage of a local market monopoly?

It’s local tax. We get taxed to the eyeballs in Australia too.

 

[Porter]

It’s local tax. We get taxed to the eyeballs in Australia too.

Right, but they use the term "base" price and talk about the bpm separately. That's why I was confused. Also it doesn't explain the crazy figure for the V6 FE even if the tax is inclusive.

 

[xen]

Right, but they use the term "base" price and talk about the bpm separately. That's why I was confused. Also it doesn't explain the crazy figure for the V6 FE even if the tax is inclusive.

If the taxes are based on emissions it does

 

[Leonard]

Hell yeah!!!

It will be coming!

 

[Porter]

If the taxes are based on emissions it does

Right but that's a massive increase for a relatively small difference in emissions output. Would the taxes on a BMW 550i (V10) sedan have been €50k or more on top of the price?

 

[denk0815]

* * * * *
Van der Kooi Sportscars, importer of Lotus in the Netherlands, among other things, reports that the CO2 emissions of the Emira with blown four-cylinder are a lot higher than expected. Initially, an average CO2 emission of 175 g/km was assumed, but that turns out to be 195 g/km. This of course has a consequence for the bpm. Van der Kooi Sportscars is aiming for a bpm amount of €23,581 and a price of €115,009 for the Lotus Emira I4 First Edition. Please note, according to the importer this is still an expected starting price, but it seems that the base price of the Emira will exceed €100,000.
The Emira I4 Turbocharged, as the four-cylinder version is called, sprints to 100 km/h in 4.2 seconds.
Lotus further supplies the car with a 405 hp and 420 Nm strong 3.5 V6 from Toyota, a six-cylinder with supercharger that helps the coupé reach a speed of 100 km/h in 4.3 seconds. As a First Edition, that car has an entry-level price of around €140,000.

That sounds absolutely incomprehensible to me.
The emission values of the M139 have been known for years. One should rather assume that they are lower than in the A45(s) because Lotus has "tuned" the performance downwards. Not to mention that the Emira is lighter and more aerodynamic than its organ donor.

 

[Porter]

That sounds absolutely incomprehensible to me.
The emission values of the M139 have been known for years. One should rather assume that they are lower than in the A45(s) because Lotus has "tuned" the performance downwards. Not to mention that the Emira is lighter and more aerodynamic than its organ donor.

Maybe it has to do with the shorter exhaust path? Seems really weird though. Maybe Mercedes is creatively cheating the test in some way that Lotus is not. The German manufacturers have gotten REALLY sneaky with that stuff, and multiple significant regulatory penalties don't seem to have fully discouraged them.

 

[denk0815]

Maybe it has to do with the shorter exhaust path? Seems really weird though. Maybe Mercedes is creatively cheating the test in some way that Lotus is not. The German manufacturers have gotten REALLY sneaky with that stuff, and multiple significant regulatory penalties don't seem to have fully discouraged them.

Unfortunately, for MB, this sounds much more realistic than it should.

 

[xen]

Right but that's a massive increase for a relatively small difference in emissions output. Would the taxes on a BMW 550i (V10) sedan have been €50k or more on top of the price?

Not an authority on the subject but I’d assume it’s non-linear and increasingly punitive the more polluting you are. Should all be cleared up fairly soon

 

[frazzer]

These emission based taxes are stupid - they don't make any sense, environmental or otherwise.

 

[Rudolph]

Something seems quite "off" with those numbers. €115k? On a car that costs £72k in the UK? The base price converts to €86k, so where is the additional €29k coming from? Or is that €115k figure inclusive of bpm? I could see that... but if they're talking €115k PLUS €23,5k bpm for a €138.5k total, then they've lost the plot.

I don't know what they're talking about with the V6 FE price of €140k... that doesn't even remotely match the pricing delta between the I4 FE and V6 FE in other markets. It's a huge, huge disparity. Is this some sort of exclusive importer dealer markup situation, where they are taking advantage of a local market monopoly?

* * * * *
It is the BPM = Emissions Tax that make high level and sport- and supercars very, very expensive, especially in the Netherlands and Denmark.
The importer has to follow the law and can do nothing about it..........
Enclosed a picture of some time ago showing the influence of the BPM in the Netherlands.

A Lotus Evora Sport 410 with an mrsp of € 157.033,- is BPM taxed with € 44.270,-
see copy from the register below:

LOTUS​

EVORA SPORT 410
K-341-ZX
Vul hieronder uw kenteken in:

Gegevens opvragen

BasisMotor & MilieuTechnischFiscaal

Fiscaalclick to collapse contents​

Datum afschrijvingsmoment BPM
Niet geregistreerd

Bruto BPM
€ 44270

Catalogusprijs
€ 157033

Motorrijtuigenbelasting

Opvragen Motorrijtuigenbelasting

© RDW Over het raadplegen van voertuiginformatie

 

[Rudolph]

* * * * *
Porsche 718 msrp's in the Netherlands, without options.....( 1 Euro = 1,1 USD)

718 Cayman S16-..H -- € 112.785
718 Cayman S16-..A -- € 110.841
718 Cayman GTS18-20A -- € 113.431
718 Cayman GTS18-20H -- € 116.777
718 Cayman GTS 4.020-..H -- € 135.874
718 Cayman GTS 4.021-..A -- € 131.241
718 Cayman GT419-..H -- € 153.589
718 Cayman GT421-..A -- € 150.689
718 Cayman GT4 RS21-..A -- € 220.440


A 2021 2nd hand GT4 with 4056 mls...........for sale

PORSCHE 718 CAYMAN GT4 .......421 hp / torque 420Nm​

€154.950​

€ 132.587excl. BTW

• ONLINE SINDS 1 MAAND

• OPSLAAN

Bouwjaar	2021
KM stand	6.491
Brandstof	Benzine
Transmissie	Automatisch
Carrosserie	Coupe (2 deuren)
Zitplaatsen	2
Kleur	Zwart

 

[p.rob]

woah that's nuts. I'd find a way to get it registered in another neighbor country. The price difference Is literally worth buying a minuscule appartment in Germany to have an address for registration...

 

[DerTheDer]

THIS is everything that is WRONG about Lotus!! Should I be getting the best damn colour information from a Emira Non Lotus sponsored forum? NO, I shouldnt. I am very thankful I am, but this information would have been fantastic before I placed my order earlier this month.

Why do they want to play games with us like that? I also couldnt make the one showing my dealer did becuase I was away on business, so I was not able to see the colour samples.

I may be a bit salty now, but the car has been announced, orders taken, so why cant we get official photos of the cars with all the colours....grrrr.

/rant over

For what its worth I picked the Emira over a Mclaren because my Elise drives so well.

 

[Rudolph]

woah that's nuts. I'd find a way to get it registered in another neighbor country. The price difference Is literally worth buying a minuscule appartment in Germany to have an address for registration...

* * * * *
It is not allowed to drive in the Netherlands with a foreign country license plate.
You will be caught during driving either by the police or the customs control cars on the highway.

After a couple of years you can purchase a 2nd hand / depreciated German car and import it to the Netherlands......also then you have to pay carbon emission tax etc......the sum will be equally lower parallel to the depreciated amount and some lower than a depreciated original Dutch car.
The last years this happens more, both by private persons and dealers / garages / workshops.

 

[LotusB]

I may be a bit salty now, but the car has been announced, orders taken, so why cant we get official photos of the cars with all the colours....grrrr.

/rant over

Rant is understandable... we're all in the same boat...

Sucks to spend $100k on a car and not even know if I've picked the right color. Especially given that the review of the Seneca here is so unfavorable. Have to remind myself that it's just one person's opinion. I mean, he liked the Shadow Gray... and I saw that in person; it was drab.

I'm sure we all made the right decisions for us. We better have!

 

[Leonard]

Rant is understandable... we're all in the same boat...

Sucks to spend $100k on a car and not even know if I've picked the right color. Especially given that the review of the Seneca here is so unfavorable. Have to remind myself that it's just one person's opinion. I mean, he liked the Shadow Gray... and I saw that in person; it was drab.

I'm sure we all made the right decisions for us. We better have!

I thought Seneca was lovely if any consolation

 

[darkling]

so i take it your dealers haven't got their tool kit either . Talked to my salesmen and he informed me customs has the kits with samples still locked up