Emira manual torque limit?

[dros]

Hello everyone

Does anyone know the torque/power limit for the Emira manual?
Say you are upgrading the engine JUBU 500hp/550nm

Thanks

 

[Cutting42]

Hello everyone

Does anyone know the torque/power limit for the Emira manual?
Say you are upgrading the engine JUBU 500hp/550nm

Thanks

Jubu sell a sequential gearbox for the car that can take lots more power. I believe the Aisin gearbox is good for mid 400's but risk reward kicks in much over 435 which is the Jubu starting point and close to the Lotus 430 Evora GT

PS, just saw this

JUBU Performance -

Tuning und Porsche/Lotus Service in Österreich, Inspektion und Unfallreparatur für Lotus und Porsche. Vertrieb von Porsche und Lotus Performance Parts.

www.jubu-performance.com

 

[dros]

Jubu sell a sequential gearbox for the car that can take lots more power. I believe the Aisin gearbox is good for mid 400's but risk reward kicks in much over 435 which is the Jubu starting point and close to the Lotus 430 Evora GT

PS, just saw this

JUBU Performance -

Tuning und Porsche/Lotus Service in Österreich, Inspektion und Unfallreparatur für Lotus und Porsche. Vertrieb von Porsche und Lotus Performance Parts.

www.jubu-performance.com

Their DCT seems good as well

yeah, this is what i was looking for. good find
i didnt look under the other models.

JUBU HD 6-speed manual gearbox-kit V6 for up to 700Nm​

for Exige S3 | Evora | 3-Eleven | Emira V6

The manual Lotus OEM gearbox hits its limits at about 450hp of power output. For higher powered cars as well as for trackdays and puristic racing, we have developed the JUBU HD 6-speed manual gearbox kit. It offers ultra-puristic, manual shifting and works fantastic - even under toughest conditions.

 

[Porter]

If you are considering a gearbox upgrade anyway but are at all price-sensitive, my honest advice is to keep the stock gearbox and just avoid shock-loading it with clutch dumps. It will last a LOT longer than you probably expect.

If/when you break it, then look at an upgrade. Gotta pop it open anyway, so just do it then. If ever.

 

[dros]

Just got this e-mail for anyone who is interested.

-

Hi!

I was wondering if the DCT is suitable for the 600hp engine upgrade or if the seq gearbox is better with the paddle-shift?


This is for the Lotus Emira as a street car.


Thank you

-

DCT is only available for 500 hp.
For 600hp is HD manual or sequential.

Sequential is loud for a road car!

Best
M

 

[Eagle7]

The JUBU HD manual gearset is going to cost you about $18k with tax just by itself, and then you either have to do the swap yourself or pay someone else. If you pay someone else you're looking at about a $20k upgrade altogether, just for the trans. Then the cost of the engine upgrades.

You're looking at this just for a street car? My suggestion is to gain performance by following Chapman's old philosophy; adding lightness. Reduce rolling resistance, reduce unsprung rotating weight, reduce drivetrain loss. What kind of budget do you have?

 

[dros]

The JUBU HD manual gearset is going to cost you about $18k with tax just by itself, and then you either have to do the swap yourself or pay someone else. If you pay someone else you're looking at about a $20k upgrade altogether, just for the trans. Then the cost of the engine upgrades.

You're looking at this just for a street car? My suggestion is to gain performance by following Chapman's old philosophy; adding lightness. Reduce rolling resistance, reduce unsprung rotating weight, reduce drivetrain loss. What kind of budget do you have?

Budget is endless.
I will be adding lightness.

Figuring out if I should go DCT for the 500hp upgrade og seq with paddle-shift 600hp upgrade.

 

[kitkat]

500hp and their DCT? Probably going to cost north of 80,000€ when all said and done.

That price really opens you up to a huge selection of cars. Why stick with Lotus at that point?

 

[Eagle7]

Budget is endless.
I will be adding lightness.

Figuring out if I should go DCT for the 500hp upgrade og seq with paddle-shift 600hp upgrade.

My suggestion is to look into a modest tune, maybe 430 hp. Then start adding lightness.

JUBU Performance -

Tuning und Porsche/Lotus Service in Österreich, Inspektion und Unfallreparatur für Lotus und Porsche. Vertrieb von Porsche und Lotus Performance Parts.

www.jubu-performance.com

That's about $2,500 U.S. Engine response is greatly improved by a lighter flywheel, and the JUBU setup would have the strength to hold up to the use you seem to plan on using the car for.


Wheels: https://www.litespeedracing.com/vs10
The best bang for the buck with the litespeed wheels would be the forged mag+ monoblock. Wheels start at 17 lbs, and they will be custom built to exactly replace the factory wheels. Cost is about $9,800 (quoted last April) for a full set.

Here are the specs for the Lotus forged wheels that come with the FE:
Emira front wheel = 20x8.5 +57 offset, 11.5 kg weight (25.35 lbs)
Front tire 245/35ZR20
Emira rear wheel = 20x10 +54 offset, 13.5 kg weight (29.76 lbs)
Rear tire 295/30ZR20

5x114.3 is the bolt pattern

You're looking at saving 8 lbs per wheel for the fronts, and more for the backs. The forged magnesium monoblock is 2 lbs lighter, but $4,000 more per set. I don't think 2 lbs is worth the extra $4k, especially for a street build.


I'm currently researching and looking into replacing the wheel bearings with ceramics, which greatly reduce the rolling resistance www.microbluebearings.com I haven't decided on that particular company yet, but it looks very promising. Ceramic bearings are a lot more expensive than regular steel bearings, but the benefits are considerable.


Brakes are another area where weight can be saved, but I don't know how much. The factory brakes look to be pretty light as-is, but the hats are not separate from the disc, and for the kind of driving you want to do, you'll go through brake discs. A true 2-piece brake with a floating hat would be the best way to go for lightness, performance and service. I'm still looking into that; depends on what's out there that will work with the Emira. Once I get my car, I'll be better able to get accurate numbers and sources for things.


Battery. https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/starter-batteries/automotive/ag-h6-rs/
You can save about 32 lbs of weight in the back of the car if you go with the 40ah battery, which is $830. Even more weight can be saved with smaller batteries, but the advantage of the one listed is it's a direct replacement for the factory battery, no modifications needed for mounting.


Seats. Depends on whether you want to modify the interior or not. Factory 12-way electric seats weigh about 55 lbs each from what others are reporting. Carbon fiber seats can be had that weigh less than 20 lbs, so you can save a good 70 lbs for a pair. You just have to deal with how to mount them, and the electronic issues of the system looking for the factory seats, plus you lose the safety airbags. The airbag issue would be something to seriously think about though, especially for a street build. I would prefer having the airbags myself, so a seat upgrade (at least for what's currently available) would be out for me. Maybe Lotus Advanced Performance (LAP) will have upgrades in that area in the future that comply with safety and the car's computers.


These are all things to get you started. If you had lighter wheels, ceramic bearings, lighter flywheel/clutch, and a lighter battery just for a start (no pun intended), you would definitely notice the improvement, even with the engine still completely stock. Add a tune to 430 hp (probably komotec) and you'd have a pretty decent street car at that point. If you want more than that, undoubtedly we'll see carbon fiber body parts coming out of China which will remove even more weight. The one part I would be the most interested in would be a carbon fiber rear hatch. Removing weight that high up on the car, and from that area would improve the overall weight balance and help lower the center of gravity for the car.

As you can see, there are things you can do to improve the performance without stressing the car, overly modifying the power (which can get very expensive fast), and keep things smooth, fast and reliable. You want to have fun with the car, not be constantly having to work on it and throw more money into it because something else has broken, which is often what happens when you add a lot more power and torque. Do things in stages, live with it, then consider what and where you can make more improvements if you feel you need or want more. Modding can be fun if done intelligently. Think of how everything has to work together, rather than punching up the performance in just one area. A car is a system, and should be treated that way when upgrading.

 

[KAR120C]

...

I'm currently researching and looking into replacing the wheel bearings with ceramics, which greatly reduce the rolling resistance www.microbluebearings.com I haven't decided on that particular company yet, but it looks very promising. Ceramic bearings are a lot more expensive than regular steel bearings, but the benefits are considerable.

...

It's been a few years since I've looked into ceramic wheel bearings. Clearly ceramic hybrids are superior to stainless steel, but I didn't find a reputable dyno test of steel vs. ceramic wheel bearings on a car. I'm curious what $/hp results you've found in your research.

 

[Porter]

Budget is endless.
I will be adding lightness.

Figuring out if I should go DCT for the 500hp upgrade og seq with paddle-shift 600hp upgrade.

If you're going to take that approach, you may want to consider having JUBU just build up an Emira for you in a complete way, similar to the work they are doing with Radford. Or have RML build you a mostly-street-legal version of the Emira GT4.

Or... have you considered a Radford?

 

[Eagle7]

It's been a few years since I've looked into ceramic wheel bearings. Clearly ceramic hybrids are superior to stainless steel, but I didn't find a reputable dyno test of steel vs. ceramic wheel bearings on a car. I'm curious what $/hp results you've found in your research.

The hybrids are cheaper, but they can have wear issues over time. It's just ceramic wrapped around a steel core. The true ceramics are the best and are basically good for life. The race teams are using those, and they don't even use grease anymore; they use oil! The bearings reduce the friction so much, and run so much cooler, they can get away with oil for a race which means there's almost no resistance there. That's not going to work on the street, but you can use very low friction grease (and not much at that) for the street and it works just fine.

I'm still researching this, and so far it doesn't seem like it's something that a dyno is the best way to measure it. The reduction in rolling friction resistance shows up in how far a vehicle can coast before coming to a stop, which of course means it takes less power to get rolling and keep rolling. Great for fuel mileage. I'm sure that has to show at least somewhat on a dyno run, but I haven't seen anything yet. I'm still looking.

So far from what I've been looking at, it seems to have similar benefits to reducing unsprung rotating weight, so I imagine combining those two benefits would really make the car move quickly. Whenever I hear a video of the long, slow climb in rpms when someone is accelerating in an Emira, I think of ways to make it easier for the car to accelerate, and ceramic bearings look really good so far. I'll definitely post whatever I find out, and probably start a project thread once I get my car. I have a few things in mind that I want to do, and I'll document it with photos.

 

[KAR120C]

The hybrids are cheaper, but they can have wear issues over time. It's just ceramic wrapped around a steel core. The true ceramics are the best and are basically good for life. The race teams are using those, and they don't even use grease anymore; they use oil! The bearings reduce the friction so much, and run so much cooler, they can get away with oil for a race which means there's almost no resistance there. That's not going to work on the street, but you can use very low friction grease (and not much at that) for the street and it works just fine.

I'm still researching this, and so far it doesn't seem like it's something that a dyno is the best way to measure it. The reduction in rolling friction resistance shows up in how far a vehicle can coast before coming to a stop, which of course means it takes less power to get rolling and keep rolling. Great for fuel mileage. I'm sure that has to show at least somewhat on a dyno run, but I haven't seen anything yet. I'm still looking.

So far from what I've been looking at, it seems to have similar benefits to reducing unsprung rotating weight, so I imagine combining those two benefits would really make the car move quickly. Whenever I hear a video of the long, slow climb in rpms when someone is accelerating in an Emira, I think of ways to make it easier for the car to accelerate, and ceramic bearings look really good so far. I'll definitely post whatever I find out, and probably start a project thread once I get my car. I have a few things in mind that I want to do, and I'll document it with photos.

Interesting! I thought the pure ceramics were a no-go for street driving because they don't handle impact as well. I'm sure they've improved over the years, though.

I will submit, however, that it should be directly measurable in a dyno as less resistance will result in higher whp since the driveline loss decreases as friction decreases.

 

[Porter]

Unfortunately it's exactly the opposite on a dyno because you have a lot more systems contributing parasitic drag, and the differences you are measuring are extremely small. It's nearly impossible to measure rolling resistance or efficiency on a chassis dyno for that reason. I'm sure there are specialized systems to do that, but you can't do it effectively on a power measurement dyno.

Also, you won't see a big change in measured power from this sort of improvement either. Rolling and fluid resistances aren't linear with speed change in the way that you might expect.

The best real-world measure of rolling resistance change is actually fuel economy.

 

[KAR120C]

Unfortunately it's exactly the opposite on a dyno because you have a lot more systems contributing parasitic drag, and the differences you are measuring are extremely small. It's nearly impossible to measure rolling resistance or efficiency on a chassis dyno for that reason. I'm sure there are specialized systems to do that, but you can't do it effectively on a power measurement dyno.

Also, you won't see a big change in measured power from this sort of improvement either. Rolling and fluid resistances aren't linear with speed change in the way that you might expect.

The best real-world measure of rolling resistance change is actually fuel economy.

Seems reasonable. However, let me put forward this scenario.

Let's say I don't care about coast down/fuel economy (which I don't), but only speed or acceleration differences (which I do), then it seems power measurement is the way to go. All other things being equal on the vehicle, if I decrease friction in the wheel bearings, I will see a rise in whp. If that's too small to be measured against all the other driveline components, then it would be a poor investment for someone interested solely in power to the wheels.

What are your thoughts on that? BTW, not arguing, just wanting to hone my knowledge a bit more!

 

[Porter]

Seems reasonable. However, let me put forward this scenario.

Let's say I don't care about coast down/fuel economy (which I don't), but only speed or acceleration differences (which I do), then it seems power measurement is the way to go. All other things being equal on the vehicle, if I decrease friction in the wheel bearings, I will see a rise in whp. If that's too small to be measured against all the other driveline components, then it would be a poor investment for someone interested solely in power to the wheels.

What are your thoughts on that? BTW, not arguing, just wanting to hone my knowledge a bit more!

Generally I agree that this would probably be a poor investment for someone seeking out additional power to the wheels. There are easier and cheaper ways to do that.

 

[KAR120C]

Generally I agree that this would probably be a poor investment for someone seeking out additional power to the wheels. There are easier and cheaper ways to do that.

Thanks, that was the end point I arrived at the last time I looked into it. I have no data to support this, but I would expect a cheap 3rd cat swap to a test pipe would yield significantly better results, both in power and costs.

 

[Eagle7]

Seems reasonable. However, let me put forward this scenario.

Let's say I don't care about coast down/fuel economy (which I don't), but only speed or acceleration differences (which I do), then it seems power measurement is the way to go. All other things being equal on the vehicle, if I decrease friction in the wheel bearings, I will see a rise in whp. If that's too small to be measured against all the other driveline components, then it would be a poor investment for someone interested solely in power to the wheels.

What are your thoughts on that? BTW, not arguing, just wanting to hone my knowledge a bit more!

The problem with using a dyno is it only measures what's going on at the rear wheels. It's not going to measure the change in forward movement of all 4 wheels on the ground. I suspect the ceramic bearings on the rear would show some improvement on the dyno, but not the overall effect.

Measuring 0-60 times and trap speeds would be a better yardstick. The engine has to push against the resistance in the drivetrain, and the entire car has to push against the resistance to forward movement. The less resistance, the quicker you accelerate, and the faster you go.

Resistance to forward motion comes from the tires, the road surface, wind, going up or down, weight of the unsprung rotating parts in the wheels, brakes and resistance in the wheel hubs, resistance in the differential, trans, and having to spin up the weight of the flywheel and clutch. Gear oils and greases play a small part in that. All of it together adds up to resistance you have to overcome when accelerating.

In order to address all those things, you have to look at them one by one. Better oils in the trans and differential, either better grease in the hub bearings, and/or improve the bearings, lighter brake rotors, lighter wheels. All of those can be done without having to go into the engine. Flywheel and clutch is also quite beneficial, but that's likely to void the warranty, so it's something I wouldn't do until the clutch needed replacing.

 

[Speedy Emira]

Hello everyone

Does anyone know the torque/power limit for the Emira manual?
Say you are upgrading the engine JUBU 500hp/550nm

Thanks

I emailed JUBU a while ago when I was considering buying an Emira, and they replied the OEM manual box is good for the 500hp kit and can have an uprated clutch, lightweight flywheel and better LSD fitted. They said the V6 auto was only good up to 450hp.