Another trip around the buoy that is Lotus customer service...

[Eagle7]

Please can someone turn the American off now, or put him back in his box - the constant repeating of the same self-centred sanctimonious drivel is boring me now

Clever, and oh so witty! Since you're bored now, I trust we won't see anymore of your rapier wit in this thread then? Good lad.

 

[NickR]

This thread in my opinion as proven without doubt "The many worlds hypothesis"
There's no way I'm in the same universe as some!

 

[disgruntled]

Clever, and oh so witty! Since you're bored now, I trust we won't see anymore of your rapier wit in this thread then? Good lad.

Oh, don't worry I'll be back - just busy at the moment looking for the tosser emoji

 

[TomE]

This topic started (on a different thread) from a situation affecting many depositor holders, the rescheduling of Sept-Dec builds following the most recent delay announcement. There seemed to be random factors affecting whether people were not delayed or delayed anywhere between one and four months. We all know the headline reason is "parts supply issues" but I think many people expected a little more info and would then have been happy with the explanation. It's been possible to make some deductions based on what people have been posting online about their specs and delays. For example we think auto gearboxes are an issue and most people with them have got at least a two month longer delay, but in many cases with no explanation from Lotus.

This is also linked to the question of spec changes, with some people offered opportunities to change spec with no delay penalty, while others were told they would be delayed into 2023 if they changed. It was also apparent that no one could change their spec to something easier/quicker to deliver, despite this seeming to be to Lotus' and the customer's benefit. This included simple deletions like Tracker and Homelink too, which appeared to be delaying factors for some.

The 120ish people with pre-reveal deposits are also a group who seem to be affected differently. Lotus made a mess of transferring those dealer deposits across to the central system, which resulted in that group being disadvantaged at various points in the process. After several of those 120 raised it with Lotus, assurances were given by senior people that it had been sorted out. Statements were also made to pre- and post-reveal depositors that UK build allocation would be based on deposit date.

In light of the supply chain difficulties, it's no surprise Lotus are having to re-sequence based on whatever order parts are arriving. Hence why we've seen LHD dealer demo cars arriving in Belgium weeks before RHD ones in the UK. Lotus didn't explain this situation to the UK dealers before they found out online, they'd just been told their demo cars were delayed yet again. The resequencing also appears to mean pre-reveal folks now have builds spread across Sept-Dec, with most now Oct/Nov and very few in Sept. The delays are not directly correlated with specs. Post-reveal folks are also now significantly re-sequenced, with a number of Goodwood depositors in the first batch, ahead of pre-reveal and reveal-day folks. It's clear from all this that Lotus are having to back-track on the previous policy of deposit date order. That's not too surprising in the circumstances, but it does seem to have been completely abandoned rather than modified. In the past, deposit date determined build batch rather than exact delivery date, but that has now gone. In my opinion, Lotus could do a little bit more to explain what has been done and why. In the past they have said more, either publicly or individually. Other people will be happy with "parts delayed" as the explanation, so that's OK for them.

I've been trying to find out information and cross-reference what others have been saying about their orders. Not just for my own benefit but to share on here so you all have more info.

During that research it has become apparent - much to my surprise - that the situation with my order seems strangely different. Hopefully an explanation will be provided. Why don't we now wait for that, rather than the increasingly heated speculation about whether my extra delay is deliberate or (bizarrely) something I "deserve"?

Remember, part of the reason for all this is the car is brilliant and I want Lotus to hurry up and deliver mine and yours more quickly than "soon".

 

[TomE]

You're welcome, although I have to say I'm not at all surprised by the response. You are again deliberately trying to evade the point I made which had nothing to do with legitimizing how Lotus are behaving. Nice job cleaning up all the vitriol by calling it "anyone else who points out shortcomings", even though in the very first sentence of what I wrote I stated "It's one thing to point out objectively, that there's a problem, or an area that needs improvement. People will take that feedback seriously without resenting you." You and others in here have gone way beyond merely pointing out shortcomings. I noticed it over a month ago and started to caution about it.

Now, take note how you reacted by me simply saying it's wiser to be civil than mock, belittle and insult. What if I started a thread with memes mocking Tom? Or saying negative things about you, your performance, how you repeatedly fail to do something I think you should do? How do you think you'd react? Censor me? Ban me? Restrict my ability to post in here? Would you react positively or negatively? There's a problem here Tom, and the fact that you saw what I posted as a "lecture" is part of it. You see absolutely nothing wrong with what you and others have been doing in here, and now can't understand the reaction you're getting from Lotus. You lecture me because I'm saying things you don't like and don't want to hear; even though I'm doing exactly what you think you're doing to Lotus, except I'm not mocking, belittling or calling you a failure; I'm merely 'pointing out shortcomings', highlighting and repeating that when no changes are being made, a practice which you yourself say is entirely legitimate. How does that make you feel? I'm doing this for the same reasons you are; I'm doing it because I want things to improve. There's a risk involved though, in saying things about other people's performance. You're a mod now, and can ban me completely. I'm not saying these things for me; I know it's not going to make me popular. I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post.

Look at the reaction you've now gotten from Lotus; do you honestly believe it's just because you were posting info that people in here were hoping to find out about? You've been doing that for over a year without suddenly getting a cold shoulder. Something has changed and you've noticed it. What do you think it could be? Their reaction to you has nothing to do with me or my "conjecture" as you put it. My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now. Read back through all your posts where you mock them, laugh at them, insult them for not doing what you think they should do. Maybe you don't realize you've been doing it as much as you have, which is why I've been cautioning about it. Something has changed.

There's such a thing as going too far, and this is the edge of that point for me. I truly hope you get things worked out and there's no hard feelings at Lotus towards you, but I've said my piece about all that and I'm done. I'm just going to wait for my car now, and look forward to driving it.

It's interesting that you're the most certain Lotus have acted deliberately and as a consequence of things I've posted. And you think that's OK.

Everyone else has been speculating whether it was possible or even likely. I'd said there was maybe some evidence to suggest they had, but I was also seeking further info from others about their recent contact with Lotus and I've asked Lotus for an explanation. It's really easy for Lotus to resolve this and come back to me, as they have done in the past.

By all means try and turn it into a conspiracy theory in support of your requests for people to tone down their posts about their frustrations with the situation Lotus have created (because look what happens to people who criticise Lotus...).

 

[NicolasB]

Think this thread is losing its value, locking in 3, 2, 1...

 

[Eagle7]

It's interesting that you're the most certain Lotus have acted deliberately and as a consequence of things I've posted. And you think that's OK.

Everyone else has been speculating whether it was possible or even likely. I'd said there was maybe some evidence to suggest they had, but I was also seeking further info from others about their recent contact with Lotus and I've asked Lotus for an explanation. It's really easy for Lotus to resolve this and come back to me, as they have done in the past.

By all means try and turn it into a conspiracy theory in support of your requests for people to tone down their posts about their frustrations with the situation Lotus have created (because look what happens to people who criticise Lotus...).

Boy you're really stung aren't you. Maybe you can now understand the possible reaction the people at Lotus might have had about some of the things you've said?

And how is it that somehow you've completely missed this in my post, even though you quoted the entire thing:

"My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now."

A bit different from "most certain Lotus have acted deliberately" isn't it. And where did you possibly get the idea that I think that's okay?? I don't.

Might I suggest you read what I actually wrote? Objective, civil criticism is fine? You and others went too far, and your (and a few others) reaction to my pointing that out reveals you know it, and are trying to protect yourself from having to acknowledge that realization by attacking and diminishing me.

In my post you quoted, I'm wondering if you even saw this part: "I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post" because you just did exactly that!

Now imagine if I'd been saying these things about you for the last 8 months! Put yourself in their shoes and imagine receiving what you and some others in here have been saying. Yes they've screwed some things up, and appear to still be struggling with inconsistencies. It's been pointed out to them to such an extent, it isn't possible that they don't know about it. They're either going to change those things, or they're not. There's a point at which it goes beyond constructive criticism, and can begin to be taken as personal.

You're the one who brought your situation up to the forum, and you indicated alarm and concern. Others identified it as possibly a reaction to what you've been posting before I said anything about it. I've been trying to get people to look at it from their side of things. It's one thing to point out issues and criticize, but if it goes on too much and for too long, you run the risk of alienating people. I hope that hasn't happened for you, but you're the one who voiced concern that it might be happening before I said anything. My post was an attempt to get you to consider a possible reason why.

 

[disgruntled]

.....definitely need that tosser emoji

 

[Eagle7]

.....definitely need that tosser emoji

Back under your bridge laddie...

 

[digilotus]

Once things get personal it’s time to stop. Keep calm and carry on folks!

 

[Guest142]

Once things get personal it’s time to stop. Keep calm and carry on folks!

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[TomE]

Boy you're really stung aren't you. Maybe you can now understand the possible reaction the people at Lotus might have had about some of the things you've said?

And how is it that somehow you've completely missed this in my post, even though you quoted the entire thing:

"My post was to give you a possible insight as to why you might be getting what appears to be somewhat of a cold shoulder now."

A bit different from "most certain Lotus have acted deliberately" isn't it. And where did you possibly get the idea that I think that's okay?? I don't.

Might I suggest you read what I actually wrote? Objective, civil criticism is fine? You and others went too far, and your (and a few others) reaction to my pointing that out reveals you know it, and are trying to protect yourself from having to acknowledge that realization by attacking and diminishing me.

In my post you quoted, I'm wondering if you even saw this part: "I'm saying it as a caution for you and others; people react to what you say about them, just as you have here in this post" because you just did exactly that!

Now imagine if I'd been saying these things about you for the last 8 months! Put yourself in their shoes and imagine receiving what you and some others in here have been saying. Yes they've screwed some things up, and appear to still be struggling with inconsistencies. It's been pointed out to them to such an extent, it isn't possible that they don't know about it. They're either going to change those things, or they're not. There's a point at which it goes beyond constructive criticism, and can begin to be taken as personal.

You're the one who brought your situation up to the forum, and you indicated alarm and concern. Others identified it as possibly a reaction to what you've been posting before I said anything about it. I've been trying to get people to look at it from their side of things. It's one thing to point out issues and criticize, but if it goes on too much and for too long, you run the risk of alienating people. I hope that hasn't happened for you, but you're the one who voiced concern that it might be happening before I said anything. My post was an attempt to get you to consider a possible reason why.

It's you who keeps coming back to trying to turn this into something it isn't. You said earlier you were going to leave it, but you're back posting about it again.

Thank you for pointing out what you think might happen to me and others who post criticisms of Lotus, in whatever form those take. I haven't attacked you, I've disagreed with your opinion about what is going on within Lotus. Despite what you think about various people on here repeatedly raising the issues, there are people at Lotus who believe things are OK with customer care and comms.

The topic arose, as explained above, because of an issue that seemed to be affecting many people. As has happened before, the discussion on the forum helps to cross-reference that, gather more info, debate cause and effect and perhaps reach some conclusions. My own build situation appears to be an outlier. That's relevant in the context of trying to deduce what is happening more generally, particularly in the absence of any comms from Lotus. Some people aren't interested, are OK with vague statements from Lotus and will just take delivery whenever their car arrives. They can scroll past all this. Others are curious or more actively interested in what's happening to their builds. Some sold previous cars months ago and have missed a whole summer without a car - a first world problem for sure, but understandable why they might be keen to know more about what's happening.

You seem determined to keep bringing this back to being about me and my posts, rather than about the issue of how Lotus is handling deliveries and the patchy and inconsistent customer care about that.

 

[TomE]

A reminder: posting opinions and disagreeing with people is fine, but personal insults are not.

The admins have already deleted some posts in this thread and warnings have been issued. Because I'm participating in the content of these discussions I've asked the other admins to monitor the thread too and the deletions have been by them. Please report inappropriate posts and the admin team will review.

 

[Eagle7]

It's you who keeps coming back to trying to turn this into something it isn't. You said earlier you were going to leave it, but you're back posting about it again.

Thank you for pointing out what you think might happen to me and others who post criticisms of Lotus, in whatever form those take. I haven't attacked you, I've disagreed with your opinion about what is going on within Lotus. Despite what you think about various people on here repeatedly raising the issues, there are people at Lotus who believe things are OK with customer care and comms.

The topic arose, as explained above, because of an issue that seemed to be affecting many people. As has happened before, the discussion on the forum helps to cross-reference that, gather more info, debate cause and effect and perhaps reach some conclusions. My own build situation appears to be an outlier. That's relevant in the context of trying to deduce what is happening more generally, particularly in the absence of any comms from Lotus. Some people aren't interested, are OK with vague statements from Lotus and will just take delivery whenever their car arrives. They can scroll past all this. Others are curious or more actively interested in what's happening to their builds. Some sold previous cars months ago and have missed a whole summer without a car - a first world problem for sure, but understandable why they might be keen to know more about what's happening.

You seem determined to keep bringing this back to being about me and my posts, rather than about the issue of how Lotus is handling deliveries and the patchy and inconsistent customer care about that.

Fine Tom. I said I was done, but then you posted a long response which, since you're a mod and an important person on this forum, I felt it was necessary to respond. I'm done now. Nothing is going to change, either at Lotus or in here. That's fine.

 

[ksegg]

Can we all just be friendly towards each other again, and just go back to making witty quips about getting delivery in 2069.

I'll buy everyone the first round.

 

[TomE]

Fine Tom. I said I was done, but then you posted a long response which, since you're a mod and an important person on this forum, I felt it was necessary to respond. I'm done now. Nothing is going to change, either at Lotus or in here. That's fine.

Understood.

You made a hypothetical reference to this before, so I also want to say that me being a moderator should not make you or anyone else feel they have to respond or not respond in a particular way. It was something I discussed with the other admins before agreeing to take on the role. We value everyone's right to express their opinion and disagree with what others have posted. Being "most prolific poster" is a good and a bad thing!

Where posts are in a grey area of acceptability, these are discussed amongst the admin team before action is taken. Where posts clearly break forum guidelines, admins will often act solo but these actions are visible to the rest of us. Reported posts are visible to the whole admin team and anyone can report a post, whether for clear breaches or to raise concerns, for example about troll-style posts.

This topic has prompted a lot of debate. I'm fine with anyone disagreeing with my interpretation of the general situation with Lotus and my own build situation. I care about how we customers are treated but know I am a bit more obsessive than most about aspects of customer care, as well as my obsessiveness about all the details of the car itself. So let's draw a line on this and get back to debating the fine details of the First Edition dash badge...