VF Tuner - Upgraded Supercharger Lid

[Savanna7]

After reading through this. I’m down to place an order. Have we confirmed this will be in black regardless of the logo (I see your site offers red)? Base JB4, we’re claiming 12 hp, but unsure of tq figures? With higher maps and mods we believe it will unlock slightly higher figures? Otherwise the “guarantee” so to speak would be your stock v lid (7hp and 7 tq) as that is the test you all ran yourselves?

Thank you!

 

[sbproducer]

To help out.. I'm gonna go ahead and ask the tough questions to @VF Tuner. I imagine there are probably many who are either on the fence or waiting for warranty expiration. This is not an interrogation and it doesn't have to be perfect. Honesty and thoroughness would be great.

1) Can you describe how the product works and more importantly how it is improved over stock design?

2) I'm assuming this voids warranty, so are there any potential side effects?

3) How much time has been spent in testing?

4) How does this play along with the JUBU cooling upgrades? They seem to approach cooling in two very different ways and in different areas, so it seems logical that they would provide a cumulative benefit with some level of overlap. Can you comment on this to the best of your knowledge?

5) The lid seems to be taller than the stock lid. Is it? and by how much?

6) When will the color options be updated?

 

[sbproducer]

Darn... looks really generic
View attachment 69360

Exactly why design aesthetics are so important on a product that is visible. Never mind free. If it looks ugly or too aftermarket, I wouldn't put it on even if I was paid $800 and even if it guaranteed 10hp/10tq at the wheels. HOWEVER, if the design is pulled off right it could sell like hotcakes, if not right away, after warranties start expiring.

If I was selling this product, I would have 3 primary focuses where I would put all of my resources in during development.

1) Design. You can't underestimate this and wing it. Put your resources here and get something that people LOVE. This is how you guarantee success. Don't settle for less.

2) If this voids warranty, you're asking for a lot from most people. I personally don't give AF about the warranty as I plan on voiding it this month at 6000 miles. However, for most people, warranty is a very serious consideration. Accordingly, I would place a very high significance on making people feel safe about this product even if it is a straightforward product without much risk. Not every one is a mechanic or hardcore enthusiast with years of knowledge. And, people are a lot more sensitive then they make themselves seem.

3) Actual functional benefit. Not trying to underplay this but VF seems to have already got some decent numbers. Yes, it is important and the reason why people are considering it in the first place.

 

[Steve24]

Exactly why design aesthetics are so important on a product that is visible. Never mind free. If it looks ugly or too aftermarket, I wouldn't put it on even if I was paid $800 and even if it guaranteed 10hp/10tq at the wheels. HOWEVER, if the design is pulled off right it could sell like hotcakes, if not right away, after warranties start expiring.

If I was selling this product, I would have 3 primary focuses where I would put all of my resources in during development.

1) Design. You can't underestimate this and wing it. Put your resources here and get something that people LOVE. This is how you guarantee success. Don't settle for less.

2) If this voids warranty, you're asking for a lot from most people. I personally don't give AF about the warranty as I plan on voiding it this month at 6000 miles. However, for most people, warranty is a very serious consideration. Accordingly, I would place a very high significance on making people feel safe about this product even if it is a straightforward product without much risk. Not every one is a mechanic or hardcore enthusiast with years of knowledge. And, people are a lot more sensitive then they make themselves seem.

3) Actual functional benefit. Not trying to underplay this but VF seems to have already got some decent numbers. Yes, it is important and the reason why people are considering it in the first place.

While I agree with some of the above, I actually think that the whole overemphasis on here about design has been a negative for this product.

When you say “get something that people love” you are totally missing the point. What YOU might love from a looks perspective, I might hate.
(I’m reluctant to bring this up, but a good example might be black wheels….)

It seems that a few people who are obviously “creative” types are putting their own spin and emphasis on what they personally think it should look like, as if they’re buying an item of clothing or something.

For me - and I bet a lot of other owners - my interest is only if this is a performance enhancing product.
If it works in that respect, great. If it doesn’t - not interested.

If some people want it to look a certain way to suit their own tastes, fine.
Let them have the ability to modify it that way, and let the rest of us have something that suits what we want.

At this point I get the impression that VF is wondering why they bothered…

 

[Mr. Wolfe]

While I agree with some of the above, I actually think that the whole overemphasis on here about design has been a negative for this product.

When you say “get something that people love” you are totally missing the point. What YOU might love from a looks perspective, I might hate.
(I’m reluctant to bring this up, but a good example might be black wheels….)

It seems that a few people who are obviously “creative” types are putting their own spin and emphasis on what they personally think it should look like, as if they’re buying an item of clothing or something.

For me - and I bet a lot of other owners - my interest is only if this is a performance enhancing product.
If it works in that respect, great. If it doesn’t - not interested.

If some people want it to look a certain way to suit their own tastes, fine.
Let them have the ability to modify it that way, and let the rest of us have something that suits what we want.

At this point I get the impression that VF is wondering why they bothered…

While I agree with most of what you said, this piece is very fore-front and center, visually on the car. If you have privacy glass, not so much. I think it will have to be visually appealing to most. Obviously, you won't make everyone happy so a conservative approach is probably best.

 

[ADC]

While I agree with most of what you said, this piece is very fore-front and center, visually on the car. If you have privacy glass, not so much. I think it will have to be visually appealing to most. Obviously, you won't make everyone happy so a conservative approach is probably best.

well, actually, it's at the rear, and kind of offset to the right...

but your point stands: "inoffensive / not terrible to look at" and "improves performance" are the criteria to meet.

 

[Steve24]

While I agree with most of what you said, this piece is very fore-front and center, visually on the car. If you have privacy glass, not so much. I think it will have to be visually appealing to most. Obviously, you won't make everyone happy so a conservative approach is probably best.

Agreed. And I guess that’s my point - even if I’ve made it in a clumsy way.

Keep it simple. Make it work from a performance point of view.
And if some people want to bling it up to their own personal taste, that’s cool.
Leave it up to them to sort that out.

 

[virtualmacho]

Nuff said folks, log them orders in the system. I want to have ample time to install, test, and be comfortable with the product before going on a long trip in the Emira !

BTW, would be nice if it came with a new gasket, even as a cost option.

 

[sbproducer]

Hey, why cant we have the lid with 100% customizable thin covers that you snap on top. I'm half joking because the cost and development would probably be hefty, but it would provide ultimate customization and the ability to swap out covers whenever. Like, I could do Marvel one day and then strippers the next.. just depending on mood... and the recurring cover sales...

 

[VF Tuner]

You can't have a lid with tons of customization because production costs skyrocket. We have to pay per design and per billet block, and that has to be programmed into the CNC's. We pay for the CNC's time...


We designed this piece for performance. You can see from the design not only does it help guide the airflow equally across the intercoolers fins but it also guides the airflow as it discharges from the supercharger.
Just take the stock lid off and take a look you'll see it has practically nothing. It's just a basic....lid.

If you think we are "winging the design" you haven't spent even 5 minutes looking at what we've designed. All the critically important parts of the design are on the underside, which we took a long time to design, measure, test, and perfect.


Please read the FIRST post. It explains all the details of how it works and benefits over stock.

The lid is 90mm tall.

Testing is already done. It fits, it looks great, and it has produced gains on a bone stock Emira. (with more mods we fully expect it to provide even bigger gains).

ANY..... ANY modification can void your warranty. JB4s absolutely can void your warranty. Suspension mods can void your warranty. It ultimately comes up to the "did this modification directly result in the failure."


Just going to be honest with you guys, if we don't sell our minimum required amount to make the next batch then this product is scrapped and we are moving our development time elsewhere to more important vehicles. This product was designed and made for PERFORMANCE, not to be each person's individual Picasso.


That being said, no this modification will not directly void your warranty.


The people who have their lids love them and the look is stunning. Theses are seriously high quality pieces. When you compare it to the stock lid you're going to realize the stock lid is trash in comparison to design, functionality, and look.

 

[Steve24]

You can't have a lid with tons of customization because production costs skyrocket. We have to pay per design and per billet block, and that has to be programmed into the CNC's. We pay for the CNC's time...


We designed this piece for performance. You can see from the design not only does it help guide the airflow equally across the intercoolers fins but it also guides the airflow as it discharges from the supercharger.
Just take the stock lid off and take a look you'll see it has practically nothing. It's just a basic....lid.

If you think we are "winging the design" you haven't spent even 5 minutes looking at what we've designed. All the critically important parts of the design are on the underside, which we took a long time to design, measure, test, and perfect.


Please read the FIRST post. It explains all the details of how it works and benefits over stock.

The lid is 90mm tall.

Testing is already done. It fits, it looks great, and it has produced gains on a bone stock Emira. (with more mods we fully expect it to provide even bigger gains).

ANY..... ANY modification can void your warranty. JB4s absolutely can void your warranty. Suspension mods can void your warranty. It ultimately comes up to the "did this modification directly result in the failure."


Just going to be honest with you guys, if we don't sell our minimum required amount to make the next batch then this product is scrapped and we are moving our development time elsewhere to more important vehicles. This product was designed and made for PERFORMANCE, not to be each person's individual Picasso.


That being said, no this modification will not directly void your warranty.


The people who have their lids love them and the look is stunning. Theses are seriously high quality pieces. When you compare it to the stock lid you're going to realize the stock lid is trash in comparison to design, functionality, and look.

Hooray!
Well said, and good luck.

While the Powerfully-Built-Director types always provide some amusement on car forums (just look at the JUBU thread…) I’m glad sanity has prevailed.

This was always supposed to be a performance mod, first and foremost.

Don't shelve it. Keep it available with the focus on performance - not bling - and as more people own these cars and come closer to the end of warranty you’ll sell plenty.

 

[NJemira85]

Hooray!
Well said, and good luck.

While the Powerfully-Built-Director types always provide some amusement on car forums (just look at the JUBU thread…) I’m glad sanity has prevailed.

This was always supposed to be a performance mod, first and foremost.

Don't shelve it. Keep it available with the focus on performance - not bling - and as more people own these cars and come closer to the end of warranty you’ll sell plenty.

You can't have a lid with tons of customization because production costs skyrocket. We have to pay per design and per billet block, and that has to be programmed into the CNC's. We pay for the CNC's time...


We designed this piece for performance. You can see from the design not only does it help guide the airflow equally across the intercoolers fins but it also guides the airflow as it discharges from the supercharger.
Just take the stock lid off and take a look you'll see it has practically nothing. It's just a basic....lid.

If you think we are "winging the design" you haven't spent even 5 minutes looking at what we've designed. All the critically important parts of the design are on the underside, which we took a long time to design, measure, test, and perfect.


Please read the FIRST post. It explains all the details of how it works and benefits over stock.

The lid is 90mm tall.

Testing is already done. It fits, it looks great, and it has produced gains on a bone stock Emira. (with more mods we fully expect it to provide even bigger gains).

ANY..... ANY modification can void your warranty. JB4s absolutely can void your warranty. Suspension mods can void your warranty. It ultimately comes up to the "did this modification directly result in the failure."


Just going to be honest with you guys, if we don't sell our minimum required amount to make the next batch then this product is scrapped and we are moving our development time elsewhere to more important vehicles. This product was designed and made for PERFORMANCE, not to be each person's individual Picasso.


That being said, no this modification will not directly void your warranty.


The people who have their lids love them and the look is stunning. Theses are seriously high quality pieces. When you compare it to the stock lid you're going to realize the stock lid is trash in comparison to design, functionality, and look.

I am interested but the lack of a torque plot makes it hard to hang my hat on performance.

I’ve been having a debate with some ppl who tell me this is snake oil.

As counterpoint, I’ve found c7 z06 and hellcat lids that produced power on stock cars on dyno (which to be fair yours did not, as you openly and admirably admitted).

I see that the gm aftermarket lids (which make power) use a different approach to improving airflow.

Can you talk a bit about why you chose fins instead of this shaped ridge approach?

Did you measure the impact on IAT?

Also, a torque plot with jb4 is really a painful absence here. You’re claiming it makes power, but only w jb4, but no tq plot.

I’m not attacking you. I want to buy this, I just need you to help prove me right (that it isn’t snake oil).

 

[VF Tuner]

I am interested but the lack of a torque plot makes it hard to hang my hat on performance.

I’ve been having a debate with some ppl who tell me this is snake oil.

As counterpoint, I’ve found c7 z06 and hellcat lids that produced power on stock cars on dyno (which to be fair yours did not, as you openly and admirably admitted).

I see that the gm aftermarket lids (which make power) use a different approach to improving airflow.

Can you talk a bit about why you chose fins instead of this shaped ridge approach?

Did you measure the impact on IAT?

Also, a torque plot with jb4 is really a painful absence here. You’re claiming it makes power, but only w jb4, but no tq plot.

I’m not attacking you. I want to buy this, I just need you to help prove me right (that it isn’t snake oil).

We designed ours this way due to how the supercharger is setup on the Emira/Evora.
Those supercharger designs are different.

And we used a similar logic as those we just also incorporated fins to guide airflow. If you take the stock lid off you'll see the stock lid ALSO has small ridges that are airflow guides as well, just not nearly as much as ours. So if our design is snake oil, so it's LOTUS OEM design.

Of course people are going to call this snake oil, behind closed doors because they are too afraid to say anything publicly.
And yet upgraded lids have shown to be benefits on MANY supercharger platforms, but somehow "ours" is snake oil. I am willing to bet that these people saying this have no actual performance engineering background whatsoever.
Personally I'd love to hear from these guys claiming it is snake oil how other SC lid upgrades work on other platforms but somehow ours is just snake oil.

The lid was independently tested by an independent shop and dyno. It has shown gains. We will ask them for more information.

A stock hellcat runs more than 11psi, on a much larger blower.
our stock superchargers run maybe 6psi. you can't compare. Our lids are going to perform better the harder you push this supercharger. A hellcats supercharger, bone stock, works much harder than the Emira one.

Also, the V8 superchargers you have given as an example have a completely different orientation of how the airflow exits the supercharger and goes into each cylinder.
If you just take the lid off of yours you will completely understand why we designed ours the way we did.

The lack of a torque plot (blame the dyno shop) doesn't show the product doesn't work. Horsepower plot has been provided. Horsepower is a calculation of torque. I will ask the shop if they can provide more tests.

The entire reason we went completely independent for testing was to PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt we aren't faking the results.


In *bone stock form* the supercharger is not being worked hard enough for our lids to show any measurable increase.
however how long these vehicles stay bone stock and don't go down in pulleys, tuning, pushing power, is a temporary thing.



I already personally am aware of another company working on an upgraded lid as well who is going around calling our lid snake oil... so make sure you understand the intentions of the person you're getting information from.




If anyone is interested in this lid but plans to keep their vehicle STOCK otherwise (no exhaust mods, no future plans to go down in pulleys, tuning, higher rev limit when released) this lid is not for you.

 

[NJemira85]

We designed ours this way due to how the supercharger is setup on the Emira/Evora.
Those supercharger designs are different.

And we used a similar logic as those we just also incorporated fins to guide airflow. If you take the stock lid off you'll see the stock lid ALSO has small ridges that are airflow guides as well, just not nearly as much as ours. So if our design is snake oil, so it's LOTUS OEM design.

Of course people are going to call this snake oil, behind closed doors because they are too afraid to say anything publicly.
And yet upgraded lids have shown to be benefits on MANY supercharger platforms, but somehow "ours" is snake oil. I am willing to bet that these people saying this have no actual performance engineering background whatsoever.
Personally I'd love to hear from these guys claiming it is snake oil how other SC lid upgrades work on other platforms but somehow ours is just snake oil.

The lid was independently tested by an independent shop and dyno. It has shown gains. We will ask them for more information.

A stock hellcat runs more than 11psi, on a much larger blower.
our stock superchargers run maybe 6psi. you can't compare. Our lids are going to perform better the harder you push this supercharger. A hellcats supercharger, bone stock, works much harder than the Emira one.

Also, the V8 superchargers you have given as an example have a completely different orientation of how the airflow exits the supercharger and goes into each cylinder.
If you just take the lid off of yours you will completely understand why we designed ours the way we did.

The lack of a torque plot (blame the dyno shop) doesn't show the product doesn't work. Horsepower plot has been provided. Horsepower is a calculation of torque. I will ask the shop if they can provide more tests.

The entire reason we went completely independent for testing was to PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt we aren't faking the results.


In *bone stock form* the supercharger is not being worked hard enough for our lids to show any measurable increase.
however how long these vehicles stay bone stock and don't go down in pulleys, tuning, pushing power, is a temporary thing.



I already personally am aware of another company working on an upgraded lid as well who is going around calling our lid snake oil... so make sure you understand the intentions of the person you're getting information from.




If anyone is interested in this lid but plans to keep their vehicle STOCK otherwise (no exhaust mods, no future plans to go down in pulleys, tuning, higher rev limit when released) this lid is not for you.

Thank you for explaining the difference in design concept from the v8 blowers.

i have seen the lotus oem lid and have also concluded those paltry ridges are primarily for air flow and not structural reinforcement.

A torque plot would really help me. Can’t speak for others.

The only other performance question I have is regarding IAT.

I am not asking about aesthetics or warranties dude. I don’t blame you for being frustrated. I think maybe in the future, don’t even ask people.