USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[Dr.JDK]

Haven't check out the post over the weekend because I went to a rainy track day at PNW, a distinct feature here during wintertime.
But man, what a civil discourse on page 223-225 about trust. This thread is getting ever philosophical.
One party trusts our agents (been to the factory) and moles (lotus employees) on their words or email exchange.
Others doubt anything but what they conceive as evidence.
I have to revisit Descartes, it's been a while since my PH101 class.

 

[Nova]

Haven't check out the post over the weekend because I went to a rainy track day at PNW, a distinct feature here during wintertime.
But man, what a civil discourse on page 223-225 about trust. This thread is getting ever philosophical.
One party trusts our agents (been to the factory) and moles (lotus employees) on their words or email exchange.
Others doubt anything but what they conceive as evidence.
I have to revisit Descartes, it's been a while since my PH101 class.

I don't know about others but I thought some of it was pretty juvenile. I merely cautioned against overly optimistic expectations in light of conflicting observations from the "agents (been to the factory)" and the "moles (lotus employees)". This triggered posts questioning my motivation and circlejerk mocking of those who hold cautious views. I wonder if Descartes said anything about cognitive dissonance.

 

[Porter]

Haven't check out the post over the weekend because I went to a rainy track day at PNW, a distinct feature here during wintertime.
But man, what a civil discourse on page 223-225 about trust. This thread is getting ever philosophical.
One party trusts our agents (been to the factory) and moles (lotus employees) on their words or email exchange.
Others doubt anything but what they conceive as evidence.
I have to revisit Descartes, it's been a while since my PH101 class.

Listen, I would 100% trust all of the traditional agents in this situation if not for the repeated experience of those folks either getting it completely wrong, or passing bad information that they've been provided. The latter seems to be the most common case here. If Lotus is bullshitting their own dealers repeatedly over a period of years, it naturally creates a scenario where that channel for information can't be trusted without additional verifiable data points.

As you alluded to, it has literally become an epistemology problem.

 

[Aero]

Finally heard back from my dealer as to confirmation. He has heard nothing from Lotus about USA customer cars.
I'll believe news from a dealer source when they confirm they are getting their first customer car for delivery...and a picture of it being unloaded at the dealer.

 

[Dr.JDK]

I don't know about others but I thought some of it was pretty juvenile. I merely cautioned against overly optimistic expectations in light of conflicting observations from the "agents (been to the factory)" and the "moles (lotus employees)". This triggered posts questioning my motivation and circlejerk mocking of those who hold cautious views. I wonder if Descartes said anything about cognitive dissonance.

I don't think it juvenile. It is entertaining- we are just try to kill the wait time is all. It is less about cognitive dissonance, but more about different interpretations of the same piece of information. That is related to intentional and unintentional biases of yours, mine, and others'. If you tend to doubt everything until you saw it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears, then naturally you will "caution against overly optimistic expectation" based on others observations, words, or emails.

Listen, I would 100% trust all of the traditional agents in this situation if not for the repeated experience of those folks either getting it completely wrong, or passing bad information that they've been provided. The latter seems to be the most common case here. If Lotus is bullshitting their own dealers repeatedly over a period of years, it naturally creates a scenario where that channel for information can't be trusted without additional verifiable data points.

As you alluded to, it has literally become an epistemology problem.

I agree with you that most of the information posted by lotus have been proven wrong. However, that was before September 2023. Since Sep 2023, multiple people corroborated with each other's observations on several things, to list a few, US model in production (migz, azlambo, Scott's deleted email, VL3X's screenshot, etc), cars are sitting at the port (multiple dealers pressed Lotus US rep and got confirmation), and EPA certification done.

In an information-lacking environment, we interpret things on what we got, hence it comes down to the epistemology problem

 

[DF_Toronto]

So much analysis going on here! I understand this is super relevant for anyone whose car is in the first batch and admittedly I’d be doing the same. From however many conflicting reports there are, it does sound 99% correct that at the least the first batch of cars have been built and will arrive by Christmas whether or not they may even get here this month. That puts things on schedule and can’t see that falling behind at this point.

I think the CARB is the bigger thing I’ll beleive when I see - given the apparent previous paperwork screw up, I won’t trust they got that part right until I see the rubber stamp. I assume if cars arrive but no CARB that dealers will have cars to show and test drive while waiting for approval to deliver customer cars. My 2cents.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I don't know about others but I thought some of it was pretty juvenile. I merely cautioned against overly optimistic expectations in light of conflicting observations from the "agents (been to the factory)" and the "moles (lotus employees)". This triggered posts questioning my motivation and circlejerk mocking of those who hold cautious views. I wonder if Descartes said anything about cognitive dissonance.

I'd love nothing more to let this go, but this deserves a response.

I've reread multiple pages. I don't see anyone questioning your motivation or anyone mocking a group of people for not getting their hopes up.

What I did see is jokes on the subject of evidence. MIGZ joking that even drone footage wouldn't be believed (likely because he saw NA production first hand and reported it and was still met with a small level of disbelief). Me making an over the top joke about MIGZ needing to build a car, drive it on an ocean, while live streaming.

Nobody is arguing whether you should be an optimist or a pessimist. I get why people find themselves in both camps. I'm not even sure which camp I belong in. But through a painful wait, I think people should be able to make generic jokes and it not be turned into anything more. Levity helps.

 

[Maurice R]

So much analysis going on here! I understand this is super relevant for anyone whose car is in the first batch and admittedly I’d be doing the same. From however many conflicting reports there are, it does sound 99% correct that at the least the first batch of cars have been built and will arrive by Christmas whether or not they may even get here this month. That puts things on schedule and can’t see that falling behind at this point.

I think the CARB is the bigger thing I’ll beleive when I see - given the apparent previous paperwork screw up, I won’t trust they got that part right until I see the rubber stamp. I assume if cars arrive but no CARB that dealers will have cars to show and test drive while waiting for approval to deliver customer cars. My 2cents.

Just to clarify if CARB has not been approved when cars get here they will be held in a bonded warehouse at the port.
They cannot be released to dealers till that approval has been given and US customs then will release car for delivery to dealerships.
I also believe CARB will be approved early December

 

[NicolasB]

Just have to get Lotus off the Atkin's diet...

(No CARBs)

 

[kitkat]

Just have to get Lotus off the Atkin's diet...

(No CARBs)

Thankfully the Emira seats don't require you go on a diet.

 

[benjh1028]

I am okay with Nova’s message of “take the information here with a grain of salt” but his use of big words in his last few posts is not acceptable!

I’m just feeling beaten down from this whole process so appreciate most all of the interactions on this thread.

 

[eriegz]

Ok, so as for the current status of US / Canada deliveries, I'm seeing broad consensus on the following:

• Some NA customer cars have almost certainly been built by now. How many? Hard to say, but maybe a dozen or more.
• As we speak, these cars are possibly sitting in a UK port, or on a boat somewhere.
• The cars should physically touch US soil in maybe 2–4 weeks.
• However, something, something, paperwork government dealerships emissions Texas California Bill Clinton climate change.
• Lastly, a lucky handful of (probably American) customers might FINALLY receive their cars around Xmas time of this year.

Did I miss anything?

 

[benjh1028]

Ok, so as for the current status of US / Canada deliveries, I'm seeing broad consensus on the following:

• Some NA customer cars have almost certainly been built by now. How many? Hard to say, but maybe a dozen or more.
• As we speak, these cars are possibly sitting in a UK port, or on a boat somewhere.
• The cars should physically touch US soil in maybe 2–4 weeks.
• However, something, something, paperwork government dealerships emissions Texas California Bill Clinton climate change.
• Lastly, a lucky handful of (probably American) customers might FINALLY receive their cars around Xmas time of this year.

Did I miss anything?

You missed that DerTheDer volunteered to do a flyover in restricted airspace to quell our anxieties.

 

[silent cilantro]

I just dig all the trauma bonding we have experienced during this process.

 

[Dr.JDK]

I just dig all the trauma bonding we have experienced during this process.

We’ll see you in the US/Canada Emira Issues thread.

More bonding to look forward to in the thread above...

 

[VL3X]

I'm going on record saying there won't be any delivered in NA this year. There will be further delays at the ports and customers won't be told anything until December at the earliest.

I posted this on March 13, 2023 and re-sharing not because I want to be right, but hoping Lotus will prove me wrong. 48 days left...

 

[Maurice R]

I posted this on March 13, 2023 and re-sharing not because I want to be right, but hoping Lotus will prove me wrong. 48 days left...

Hope they do prove you wrong.
One big snag that may prove you right is that if there is a government shut down then nothing will happen.
Hope this does not happen and that shutdown does not happen.

 

[KCMO68_510]

Hope they do prove you wrong.
One big snag that may prove you right is that if there is a government shut down then nothing will happen.
Hope this does not happen and that shutdown does not happen.

Since EPA is approved, does a Federal shut down stop CARB approval?

 

[silent cilantro]

I posted this on March 13, 2023 and re-sharing not because I want to be right, but hoping Lotus will prove me wrong. 48 days left...

reported to you

 

[Maurice R]

Since EPA is approved, does a Federal shut down stop CARB approval?

Yes as there will be no one working if there is a shut down