Suspension: Touring and Sports options

kitkat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
218
Reaction score
275
Location
USA
What car is that on?
I’m guessing the lighter Emira should eat tires a little slower.

This is more about heat cycles and sessions than outright tire wear and weight. Tires cycle out of grip far earlier than physical tread unless you're talking about some of the endurance track tires. Cars I've had experience with ranged from 2800 lbs to 3600 lbs. The Emira V6 FE at 3300lbs is closer to the heavier spectrum than the lighter one I've been in.
 

Eagle7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2021
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
2,853
Location
United States
Agreed on the cup 2s -- even as a track rat I don't like them. I live an hour from Sonoma raceway and an hour from Laguna seca and go to both regularly -- not a god but even then I'm still not opting for 20" cup2s at the track, have to consider running costs.

Most of the track tires last me 3 days at the track.

20" Cup2s amortized at ~$700/day
18" Nankang AR-1 amortized at ~ $420/day
18" Toyo RRs amortized at ~ $380/day
Do you think you're going to be able to fit an 18" wheel on the Emira? I'm pretty sure a 19 will fit, but there's not much room behind that brake caliper. Even for a 19 it's either a custom forged, or something with spokes that have good clearance on the inside.

Screen Shot 2022-06-22 at 10.56.40 AM.png
 

VL3X

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,215
Location
Delaware
For all the negativity about the Goodyear SS tyre, it's by far one of the best uhp road tyres you can have for the emira.

Unless you only drive in warm and dry conditions, the cup2s can be lethal. Anything cold and/ or wet and the cup2 tyres feel like driving on plastic. I'm sure some of you are actually track gods who either only drive on dry tracks or live in California or the south of Spain. But if you intend on driving the car in anything other than perfect conditions, you'll hate the cup2s on the road. If you're talented enough you can get them hot enough on track in cold weather, but good luck to the mass majority on the road.

The SS (and more importantly the same uhp road category) is definitely the most appropriate choice for the mass majority who will drive their car in variable weather and mainly on the road.

To be frank, I'd only get the cup2s if you're only doing track driving or only intend on driving on bone dry roads, mainly in the warm.

The SC3 is the same category as the cup2. It would be pretty moronic for lotus to not offer a tyre that caters for more than perfect conditions...

Yep, exactly why I went with Sport + Goodyears. I'll track the Emira maybe 2-3 times a year if I'm lucky. The rest of the time it'll be enjoyed as a weekend toy to cruise around and take short weekend trips in.

I'll still get the sporty suspension and precise handling I want, but with a bit less NVH and better tire wear. Not to mention I'll still be able to drive it just in case I ever get stuck in the rain or the temps drop a bit.
 

kitkat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
218
Reaction score
275
Location
USA
Do you think you're going to be able to fit an 18" wheel on the Emira? I'm pretty sure a 19 will fit, but there's not much room behind that brake caliper. Even for a 19 it's either a custom forged, or something with spokes that have good clearance on the inside.

View attachment 6719

The higher offset of Lotus setups might make it harder for spoke clearance to caliper, but that all comes down to spoke design and spacers as needed. As for the barrel clearance, that shouldn't be an issue at all. I run 380mm rotors and 6/4 pot Stoptech calipers that are fairly massive under 18" wheels with plenty of clearance.
 

PhilCP

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2022
Messages
37
Reaction score
36
Location
North West
I was reading Henry Catchpole’s Emira review in Evo (sports chassis & goodyears) and he states:

“ despite this car having the firmer of the two fixed rate suspension options, there is still plenty of compliance in the Emira around towns like this. It doesn’t jolt or jar on encountering speed bumps or sunken manhole covers. On a couple of more minor roads it seemed to lose its otherwise impeccable composure, but it must’ve been a particular combination of slower speed and big bumps because on other occasions where I expect it to happen again it is fine. In short, the sport set up feels perfectly usable every day. “

Quite a contrast from Shmee and Harry likening it to a track focused car like the GT3. Granted Harry was on Cup2’s

Don’t know what to believe anymore. Only answer is to test drive one myself in the dim and distant future.
 

haaaake

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Location
California
Cup2s are not "lethal" in cold or wet conditions. At all. Anyone that says that hasn't driven them. They are quite good in the wet actually.
 

FederGigant

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
303
Reaction score
369
Location
Germany
Cup2s are not "lethal" in cold or wet conditions. At all. Anyone that says that hasn't driven them. They are quite good in the wet actually.
You are either joking and have a very bad humor, or you don't know what rain means. That's completely not true. I've experienced it myself and seen it many, many times on the Autobahn.
Such statements can be dangerous for other people that take your words...
 

Leonard

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
1,584
Reaction score
1,897
Location
Derbyshire UK
You are either joking and have a very bad humor, or you don't know what rain means. That's completely not true. I've experienced it myself and seen it many, many times on the Autobahn.
Earlier cup 2s were defo lethal, the later ones are not as lethal...
 

haaaake

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Location
California
You are either joking and have a very bad humor, or you don't know what rain means. That's completely not true. I've experienced it myself and seen it many, many times on the Autobahn.

Well I am sorry you are just wrong. I have driven multiple 991.2 GT3s in the wet on mountain roads with Cup 2s. Driving on a freeway and aquaplaning at high speeds and having grip when actually driving through corners in the rain are not the same thing.

Have you ever driven on track in the wet? Cup 2s will perform much much better in the wet than a Goodyear F1 I can assure you. Advan A052s do quite well in the wet as well.

Driving at normal speeds with a Cup 2 really isn't that different to driving on an all weather tire. The amount of nonsense that gets stated about tires continues to blow my mind.
 

VL3X

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,215
Location
Delaware
Well I am sorry you are just wrong. I have driven multiple 991.2 GT3s in the wet on mountain roads with Cup 2s. Driving on a freeway and aquaplaning at high speeds and having grip when actually driving through corners in the rain are not the same thing.

Have you ever driven on track in the wet? Cup 2s will perform much much better in the wet than a Goodyear F1 I can assure you.

I think it's more of an issue of heat. I've driven a GT4 with cold Cup2s and I would certainly recommend getting some heat in them before any sort of spirited driving. Haven't tried any in the rain.
 

FederGigant

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
303
Reaction score
369
Location
Germany
Well I am sorry you are just wrong. I have driven multiple 991.2 GT3s in the wet on mountain roads with Cup 2s. Driving on a freeway and aquaplaning at high speeds and having grip when actually driving through corners in the rain are not the same thing.

Have you ever driven on track in the wet? Cup 2s will perform much much better in the wet than a Goodyear F1 I can assure you. Advan A052s do quite well in the wet as well.

Driving at normal speeds with a Cup 2 really isn't that different to driving on an all weather tire. The amount of nonsense that gets stated about tires continues to blow my mind.
No they don't ;) It can be seen in many YouTube videos that Cup 2s are even slower than a Pilot Sport 4 in the wet, not to mention the 4S, which would be the equivalent to the Goodyears. And we are talking multiple seconds on a short track. Just look it up. But maybe you are right and all racing teams are dumb for using rain tires in the rain.

Edit: Just one example: Tire Test
Time and breaking performance are worlds apart in the wet.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DrD

DrD

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Messages
121
Reaction score
413
Location
Solihull, United Kingdom
To bring this back to suspension a bit...

Goodwood update:
I had a great chat to Gavin and also Will, the engineer in charge of stability control calibration (and also the same chap that brought Harry the red Emira in his video)

There are indeed 3 alignment set ups for each tyre and chassis choice. However it shouldn't be difficult to change between the cup2 and SS set up on the sports chassis. Something to be aware of if you're changing tyre type throughout the your ownership of the car.

Difference between sports and tour is different dampers, spring rates and geometry, Nothing else.

Will post anything else as I remember it.
 

kitkat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
218
Reaction score
275
Location
USA
Good to know! So sway bars and bushings are all the same.
Little bit surprised about bushings but that's cool. Easy swap for people who are unhappy with their damper and spring combination.
 

freefall_junkie

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2021
Messages
285
Reaction score
611
Location
West Linton
There are indeed 3 alignment set ups for each tyre and chassis choice. However it shouldn't be difficult to change between the cup2 and SS set up on the sports chassis. Something to be aware of if you're changing tyre type throughout the your ownership of the car.
Interesting! This is completely the opposite of what Lotus told me just last week, but your info comes from Gav so is obviously the correct version. Makes sense that the geom would be set up differently on Sports for the two tyres.
 

kitkat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2022
Messages
218
Reaction score
275
Location
USA
Interesting! This is completely the opposite of what Lotus told me just last week, but your info comes from Gav so is obviously the correct version. Makes sense that the geom would be set up differently on Sports for the two tyres.

At the same time, not all information from Gav has been accurate.
 

Dabjbr

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
49
Reaction score
44
Location
NorCal
So I’m assuming geometry difference means sport and tour have different camber and toe settings? And then another alignment setup for sport/gy?

Honestly, that seems a bit odd to me. I’d think it makes more sense for 2 alignments based on tour or sport. Or maybe 3 alignments: tour, sport and track. Track would max out negative camber and possibly front toe out.

Just my opinion of course.
 

haaaake

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Location
California
No they don't ;) It can be seen in many YouTube videos that Cup 2s are even slower than a Pilot Sport 4 in the wet, not to mention the 4S, which would be the equivalent to the Goodyears. And we are talking multiple seconds on a short track. Just look it up. But maybe you are right and all racing teams are dumb for using rain tires in the rain.

Edit: Just one example: Tire Test
Time and breaking performance are worlds apart in the wet.

So yeah you don’t have any first hand experience not surprising. Cup2s are very much not a racing tire. Race teams use tires not too far off a cup 2 tread pattern for wet conditions.

There really isn’t much point in continuing this discussion you will clearly never be driving the car quickly let alone in wet conditions.
 

haaaake

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2022
Messages
13
Reaction score
10
Location
California
I think it's more of an issue of heat. I've driven a GT4 with cold Cup2s and I would certainly recommend getting some heat in them before any sort of spirited driving. Haven't tried any in the rain.
Cup2s are not anywhere near a race slick or something. It’s no different than any nice high end street tire. Everything from RE71R to Cup2 does perfectly fine in the wet and before they are up to optimal temps. There is absolutely much more grip when optimal but they aren’t anywhere remotely “dangerous” to daily drive a car on as long as you aren’t seeing freezing temps. Every tire on earth performs better when they are up to optimal temps. And every tire has optimal temp ranges, but the Cup2 range really isn’t that narrow.

The A052 has a much narrower optimal range and still does perfectly fine in the wet. Anyway moving on.. enjoy your Goodyears.
 

Similar threads

Top