Solution for gearbox in Emira

[GasperV]

 

[kitkat]

Pretty interesting that the TCU programming was so restrictive on the A45S.

 

[Porter]

Any UK members who might be willing to start a conversation with EST on the topic? Though I guess no I4s have been delivered to customers yet, so maybe Lotus is sorting it themselves in-house.

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[Tokion]

This is one of the things us i4 enthusiasts have been waiting for. However the missing link is what does the rumored “sorting out” by Lotus Cars, in collaboration with Mercedes Benz - AMG, of the DCT gearbox on the Emira i4.

It would be really optimistic to expect that this upgrade has anywhere near the effect of the one that EST PERFORMANCE has unleashed with their TCU programming (and their overall upgrade is still under development).

Even if it could become possible to upgrade Emira i4 via EST (assuming that Lotus actually will start delivering i4 to waiting customers), a tune like the one from EST will definitely void warranty.

Nevertheless this is a “proof of concept” that it indeed is possible to greatly improve the AMG 8G-DCT Dual Clutch gearbox in the i4.

I truly hope that Lotus Cars, backed up by Geely, has been able to influence Mercedes Benz - AMG to unlock the stumbling blocks in order to make the DCT perform at the level one would expect for a true sports car. High end supercars like Ferrari and Lamborghini (plus a whole list of other brands) can make it work; so why not Mercedes Benz - AMG (and Lotus Cars)⁉️

 

[Hethel Merman]

Let's not forget the owner of Geely, Li Shufu, is a part-owner of Mercedes-Benz too.

 

[PsymonR]

This is one of the things us i4 enthusiasts have been waiting for. However the missing link is what does the rumored “sorting out” by Lotus Cars, in collaboration with Mercedes Benz - AMG, of the DCT gearbox on the Emira i4.

It would be really optimistic to expect that this upgrade has anywhere near the effect of the one that EST PERFORMANCE has unleashed with their TCU programming (and their overall upgrade is still under development).

Even if it could become possible to upgrade Emira i4 via EST (assuming that Lotus actually will start delivering i4 to waiting customers), a tune like the one from EST will definitely void warranty.

Nevertheless this is a “proof of concept” that it indeed is possible to greatly improve the AMG 8G-DCT Dual Clutch gearbox in the i4.

I truly hope that Lotus Cars, backed up by Geely, has been able to influence Mercedes Benz - AMG to unlock the stumbling blocks in order to make the DCT perform at the level one would expect for a true sports car. High end supercars like Ferrari and Lamborghini (plus a whole list of other brands) can make it work; so why not Mercedes Benz - AMG (and Lotus Cars)⁉️

I wouldn't be surprised if there are limitations as to how far Mercedes will be willing to go with the tuning of the DCT as part of a stock solution for the Emira, they must have the A45S stock gearbox tune as it is for a reason.

I would expect that for the most responsive setup it is likely going to need 3rd party tuning which up to this point hasn't been available for the A45S. As such this development at EST is definitely a step in the right direction for those considering going down this route.

Whatever happens though, I'll be sticking with the stock setup, I'm not looking to push the car to its absolute limit and haven't seen anything in videos of the I4 that have overly concerned me personally (I'm probably helped by the fact that I'll be "stepping up" into the Emira and don't have an internal benchmark against its competitors). Also as you say Tokion, warranty would definitely be a concern, and that's definitely something that I'm not up for gambling on (especially seeing as the engine/DCT setup is new to Lotus and wasn't originally designed for a MR layout).

 

[kitkat]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are limitations as to how far Mercedes will be willing to go with the tuning of the DCT as part of a stock solution for the Emira, they must have the A45S stock gearbox tune as it is for a reason.

I would expect that for the most responsive setup it is likely going to need 3rd party tuning which up to this point hasn't been available for the A45S. As such this development at EST is definitely a step in the right direction for those considering going down this route.

Whatever happens though, I'll be sticking with the stock setup, I'm not looking to push the car to its absolute limit and haven't seen anything in videos of the I4 that have overly concerned me personally (I'm probably helped by the fact that I'll be "stepping up" into the Emira and don't have an internal benchmark against its competitors). Also as you say Tokion, warranty would definitely be a concern, and that's definitely something that I'm not up for gambling on (especially seeing as the engine/DCT setup is new to Lotus and wasn't originally designed for a MR layout).

There's no free meal here, AMG setup their DCT this way on their hot hatch for a reason -- usually it's to reduce warranty claims within the lifetime of the warranty. More performance is going to increase failures and failure rate.

 

[Tokion]

I

I wouldn't be surprised if there are limitations as to how far Mercedes will be willing to go with the tuning of the DCT as part of a stock solution for the Emira, they must have the A45S stock gearbox tune as it is for a reason.

I completely agree with PsymonR that there will be limitations to the willingness of Mercedes Benz - AMG to release all of the capabilities (take away all restrictions) of the 8G-DCT gearbox that Emira i4 use.

However; as reported by all of the enlisted UK and USA reviewers, the set-up and programming of the DCT gearbox in the Emira was (as of August 2023) so “buggy” with extreme delays between manual shift inputs and activation by the gearbox that it simply felt broken. As far as I know there is no other DCT gearbox (including the PDKs from Porsche and others used by Ferrari, Bugatti, and even the Nissan GT-R from Japan) that are so incompetently and overly restricted. Even though Lotus Cars have not spoken publicly; there is enough “off-the-record” oral statements to visiting customers to Lotus in Hethel.

So, we may not be talking about extreme ESR PERFORMANCE tuning to satisfy our friendly road-racing Hampshire Photo YouTuber, but at least the Lotus Emira with its DCT should become drivable without concerning delays to a degree no other Dual Clutch gearbox has ever suffered from. It is just not in the nature of the DCT brief to behave like this, and I think it should be seen as quite embarrassing to the Mercedes Benz - AMG brand. Just get on with fixing it. I expect my i4 which is scheduled to be built in January 2024 to have this obstacle removed.

 

[Porter]

It appears that EST are willing. Who wants to be the first guinea pig?

 

[TurboTambo]

It appears that EST are willing. Who wants to be the first guinea pig?

View attachment 34537

This is awesome. The i4 will be a beast with a "stage 2" tune and this gearbox tweek.

 

[GasperV]