Perspective on reviews

[Pegasi]

To be fair, if you might have read Jethro's article in EVO 299 about his track experience with the Emira, you would know that it managed a 1:18.5 time, which is decently fast. The Exige S did a 1:19.1, The F82 M4 1:19.2, the AMG GT S with 510 hp did a 1:17.0. Without a doubt the Emira would have been well below 1:17.0 with the Cup 2s. It would then be in Nissan GTR and Alfa Giulia GTAm territory, which is kind of a ridiculous achievement if you know the other cars and consider the Emira "only" has 400 hp.
Sadly they don't mention the Porsche Cayman GT4s time, not even in it's own article where it was compared to a tuned one. However they weighed the "super lightweight" Porsche: 1460 kg.

Am I the only one who finds these track times interesting? The Emira seems to hold its own among the top tier of "affordable" sports cars.

 

[Leonard]

Am I the only one who finds these track times interesting? The Emira seems to hold its own among the top tier of "affordable" sports cars.

Definitely more promising than the review comments would have you believe. Anglesey is a pretty short circuit tho, should be perfect for the Emira you would have thought

 

[Hedge]

Definitely more promising than the review comments would have you believe. Anglesey is a pretty short circuit tho, should be perfect for the Emira you would have thought

Quite tricky to get a true comparison due to the age of a lot of the tests in that link and tyre development does seem to help a fair bit. Missing the Cayman time as well.

But would seem to be a reasonably quick car by any measure. Looking forward to the proper test with Cup2s.

 

[Matthaus]

When Harry had concerns about what he was experiencing with his test car, he called Lotus and they promptly sent out a second car with the tour setup. Don't you think if Jethro had called Lotus and said "Hey, I'd like to take it to the track to compare it to a Porsche GT4 before returning it." Don't you think Lotus would have either said no, it's pre-production and we don't want a comparison like that until we have a final production car ready, OR they would have said let us bring a set of Cup2's for you first? How much different do you think his video review would have been then? Especially with the "feels soft at the front", and "understeers and lacks some front end grip". Track times would have been better too.

It was just the way he went about it, and the way he presented it that was not cool and created unnecessary drama. The fact that he didn't even tell them he did it until they saw his video review, was just not what you would expect from a professional.

I think the Evo review has done a lot to damage the Lotus and Emira reputation, it certainly knocked a few here as it was the first review many of us watched.

I'd be having serious words if I was Lotus.

 

[switchlanez]

In the 918 v LaFerrari v P1 shootouts, the 918 typically wasn't ranked first, more often last. Yet it's now the most desired among the trifecta.

And LFA sales and reviews were dismal when supercars with better performance figures could be had for less cost. Now LFA demand and prices are significantly more than its contemporaries.

Not trying to equate Emira to 918 or LFA. Just saying initial reviews can be premature relative to what the public settles on.

 

[Leonard]

I think the Evo review has done a lot to damage the Lotus and Emira reputation, it certainly knocked a few here as it was the first review many of us watched.

I'd be having serious words if I was Lotus.

The thing that 'worries' me, is that a few other reviews also highlight all the shortcomings of the EVO review. They just aren't as high profile and were a little kinder let's say than Jethros obvious disappointment.
If you are a British motoring journalist reviewing the last hurrah ICE Lotus that is a turning point for an historic British brand I can imagine that you may not be quite as bullish as you would with another brand.
A lot dont say that they are openly disappointed, but you can hear it in what they are not saying...
The Emira is a turning point but what I'm hearing is that the true driving enthusiasts are missing that Lotus purity of old.
It doesn't make it a bad car, but for some it will mean a readjustment in expectation

 

[FederGigant]

The thing that 'worries' me, is that a few other reviews also highlight all the shortcomings of the EVO review. They just aren't as high profile and were a little kinder let's say than Jethros obvious disappointment.
If you are a British motoring journalist reviewing the last hurrah ICE Lotus that is a turning point for an historic British brand I can imagine that you may not be quite as bullish as you would with another brand.
A lot dont say that they are openly disappointed, but you can hear it in what they are not saying...
The Emira is a turning point but what I'm hearing is that the true driving enthusiasts are missing that Lotus purity of old.
It doesn't make it a bad car, but for some it will mean a readjustment in expectation

What I think is that you might just hear things that others don't... Calm down, wait for more review and test drive the freakin car.

 

[Leonard]

What I think is that you might just hear things that others don't... Calm down, wait for more review and test drive the freakin car.

I will 😁 I'm not beating on the Emira.
Just discussing the reviews of journalists I've grown up listening to and respect.

 

[TomE]

I think the Evo review has done a lot to damage the Lotus and Emira reputation, it certainly knocked a few here as it was the first review many of us watched.

I'd be having serious words if I was Lotus.

Strange how EVO were one of the first to publish an online review and are the most negative and misled Lotus about the test. Almost like they were trying to undermine it and be provocative and generate site traffic. It seems to be the most talked about review.

And Lotus were complicit, by not controlling the reviews and cars properly.

 

[TomE]

I will 😁 I'm not beating on the Emira.
Just discussing the reviews of journalists I've grown up listening to and respect.

Re-read some of the reviews. Yes they have points they highlight as concerns. But overall they’re all saying it’s a great car.

 

[Leonard]

Re-read some of the reviews. Yes they have points they highlight as concerns. But overall they’re all saying it’s a great car.

They are yes. But then have you listened to Andrew Frankels podcast and Sutcliffes review (I assume so)
Anyway just chewing the fat until I can drive one myself. Test drive hopefully, or will just have to be pick up day I guess!

 

[Leonard]

Strange how EVO were one of the first to publish an online review and are the most negative and misled Lotus about the test. Almost like they were trying to undermine it and be provocative and generate site traffic. It seems to be the most talked about review.

And Lotus were complicit, by not controlling the reviews and cars properly.

I still honestly believe Jethro was just genuinely disappointed because he wanted the car to be more of a game changer.
Again I'm not ripping on Lotus just for the sake of it, but you re-market your brand as "For The Drivers" and repeatedly say that the Emira significantly moves the game on from the Evora and some folk are going to have certain expectations (me included). I could go on about the Cayman being a model at the end of its life and the Emira being brand new. But I'm more interested in how Lotus have moved the game on in-house tbh

 

[Hedge]

Strange how EVO were one of the first to publish an online review and are the most negative and misled Lotus about the test. Almost like they were trying to undermine it and be provocative and generate site traffic. It seems to be the most talked about review.

And Lotus were complicit, by not controlling the reviews and cars properly.

Clickbait?

I thought Jethro came across as genuine and a little sad, for wanting it to be more to what he hoped/expected.

Wasn’t just Jethro, John Barker gave the more critical point “it feels like a car before it’s been to Lotus”.

Steve Sutcliffe, similar.

All were referenced in #299 EVO mag, so, seems they’d compared notes before publication to confirm that they weren’t imagining things. Can’t be a conspiracy, can it?

Personally, it seems they wanted it to be different but it didn’t happen.

I’ve no doubt though it is a very good car and it is beautiful. A lot of people will absolutely love it.

 

[Tonyshepp]

I still honestly believe Jethro was just genuinely disappointed because he wanted the car to be more of a game changer.
Again I'm not ripping on Lotus just for the sake of it, but you re-market your brand as "For The Drivers" and repeatedly say that the Emira significantly moves the game on from the Evora and some folk are going to have certain expectations (me included). I could go on about the Cayman being a model at the end of its life and the Emira being brand new. But I'm more interested in how Lotus have moved the game on in-house tbh

Get yourself another 20k and get a 718 spyder.
I’m not used to anything too dynamic so the Emira will certainly top trump the M3 convertible I’m using as a benchmark.

 

[Hedge]

Get yourself another 20k and get a 718 spyder.
I’m not used to anything too dynamic so the Emira will certainly top trump the M3 convertible I’m using as a benchmark.

But will it blow dry your hair?

 

[Leonard]

Get yourself another 20k and get a 718 spyder.
I’m not used to anything too dynamic so the Emira will certainly top trump the M3 convertible I’m using as a benchmark.

Unfortunately I need to do the house up so don't have another 20k spare and I wouldn't pay 20k over RRP for a 718 either, that's GT3 money.
I genuinely still hope the Emira will tick all the boxes.
I think it's fair to have some discussion and banter though on the run up to us getting our cars.
I didnt think I'd ever hear phrases such as "it's so pretty I don't care if it's not the best dynamically " ever being said about a Lotus product.
So it's an interesting new era and I am genuinely excited to be a part of it. Doesn't mean I have to have my rose tinted specs on all the time though

 

[switchlanez]

Yeah, the extent to which it's dynamically "still a Lotus" is my main concern. That and final BE cost after optioning to my liking. I don't have firsthand Lotus experience and can only reference Caymans I've driven and my sold BRZ. But dynamics + styling + the reliable Toyota engine are Emira's main value props. Whereas the C8 is less of a mystery given there's consensus on its proven value props (well-spec'd @ mid-$80k, the starting price of BE without options). Stuck in limbo chatting it up here until there's more reviews and BE options pricing.

 

[BeHappy]

Can I just say County Durham is freaking beautiful and I want to visit again.

It is lovely I cycle 🚲 round Durham 3 times a week before I start work

 

[Lankan]

Having taken my time to go through most of the published reviews, I must say that they are rather mixed at best, with Harry M's being the only positive review. IMO, if Lotus are still fine tuning the Emira, they may have avoided all this negative press had they waited until the production FE V6 was ready. Early adopters of the GR Yaris went through a similar experience - journalists were invited to drive very early porotypes, almost a year before the production model was ready, and then only on track (at the Estoril Circuit, Portugal). The next time they were allowed to drive the GRY was once the production cars landed in the UK. The verdict was almost unanimous since Toyota had fixed all the gripes raised during the tests conducted at Estoril in Dec 2019.

Well Lotus kind of adopted this approach, when they allowed certain journalists to drive the validation prototypes (e.g. VP007), but the mistake was to let them loose on the road and track in a near-production ready car last week. Why couldn't they wait a few more weeks until at least the niggles were fixed, or are we saying that what the journos experienced is what we will get?

I have never driven a Lotus with the V6 engine (Toyota 2GR-FE) and manual gearbox. My 2010 RGB has the 1.8 litre 2ZZ-GE engine and C64 gearbox, which is baulky at the best of times, but I put up with it since the rest of the package is brilliant. The RGB weighs only 935Kg, and the engine puts out 260hp, which is more than enough when it comes to having fun on UK's B-roads. I haven't explored it on track behaviour but I figure it will be a touch underpowered, but the fun factor will certainly be present. Less mass is the key ingredient.

Hopefully Lotus will release production cars to the same journos for a before-and-after comparison?

For those who haven't got access to the article, attached is JB's review (Evo, July 2022). Note that Lotus were unable to support his request for "tech backup or Cup 2s that should be fitted to a Sport model".

 

[switchlanez]

Has anyone stopped to think Lotus isn't delaying to deliberately muck around undecidedly with fine adjustments or to piss us off for the sake of it? I understand the anger at Lotus but it might be out of their control and undeserved...

Everyone expected the advertised springtime announcement for Z06 pricing at April's National Corvette Museum Michelin Bash where big Corvette announcements are made annually. Every week or so I see articles saying price should be announced any day now. It still isn't. Reason being price relies on suppliers (and alternatives) who are on shortages. Even the Stingray will be built missing standard equipment (like rear reversing camera required by law) in customer deliveries.

If this is a general automotive supply chain issue not specific to Lotus, is it fair to bash Lotus? If they contractually can't disclose or hint at supplier issues to the public, should we blame their lack of communication? Not sure if that's a thing but I can see it being true for a smaller car company trying to establish strategic partnerships because beggars can't be choosers. I guess it could be fair to complain to Lotus for being in the automotive industry. Lotus could be stuck between a rock and a hard place and to address the complaints (if Lotus chooses to), your complaints can only drive them to the one option left: close shop.

So how can they be productive when supplier and alternative supplier delays and restricted PR on supplier behalves are outside their control? Put their heads down and tweak what they can on the car. That's the "excuse" they give but could genuinely be their best and only option at this time. In contrast, GM has been silent on their reasons but the C8 community seems big and keen enough to have figured [or found a leak on] this out.