Newbie Question about lowering springs

ARA

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Hi everyone. I'm about to bite the bullet and put my deposit down for a V6 FE. I've been undecided until now about the timing of doing so ever since I saw the car in the flesh. My background is more Porsche so I am unfamiliar with much about the Lotus experience. It was the blue car that I saw and it immediately reminded me of my old gallardo. The proportions and general vibe for me was certainly of that car, which from an an aesthetic point of view got my attention.
The promise of a great driving experience I am relying on the lotus pedigree, so that aspect is not a concern to me. My driving is likely to be 95% road usage as a 3rd car.

My specific question is about the suspension and whether lotus typically offer lowering kits. The lower stance of the show car makes a huge difference to its aggressive look as did the wheel spacers. To achieve a similar look even by lowering the standard car ever so slightly would be great, but only if this was done with handling uncompromised...not something I guess is advisable or possible

To those of you more knowledgeable on such things, please can you share your thoughts. Having said all that, I am more than happy to leave the car as is, I guess I'm just excited at the prospect of owning this car and playing with ideas to keep my mind occupied in anticipation.

Thanks all
 

Climber

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Hi everyone. I'm about to bite the bullet and put my deposit down for a V6 FE. I've been undecided until now about the timing of doing so ever since I saw the car in the flesh. My background is more Porsche so I am unfamiliar with much about the Lotus experience. It was the blue car that I saw and it immediately reminded me of my old gallardo. The proportions and general vibe for me was certainly of that car, which from an an aesthetic point of view got my attention.
The promise of a great driving experience I am relying on the lotus pedigree, so that aspect is not a concern to me. My driving is likely to be 95% road usage as a 3rd car.

My specific question is about the suspension and whether lotus typically offer lowering kits. The lower stance of the show car makes a huge difference to its aggressive look as did the wheel spacers. To achieve a similar look even by lowering the standard car ever so slightly would be great, but only if this was done with handling uncompromised...not something I guess is advisable or possible

To those of you more knowledgeable on such things, please can you share your thoughts. Having said all that, I am more than happy to leave the car as is, I guess I'm just excited at the prospect of owning this car and playing with ideas to keep my mind occupied in anticipation.

Thanks all
Good question 🙋‍♂️ Could I add;
A question concerning wheel spacers. Porsche sells they for all their cars. Do the change the handling the Emira is a wide car?
 

andrew6382

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Hi everyone. I'm about to bite the bullet and put my deposit down for a V6 FE. I've been undecided until now about the timing of doing so ever since I saw the car in the flesh. My background is more Porsche so I am unfamiliar with much about the Lotus experience. It was the blue car that I saw and it immediately reminded me of my old gallardo. The proportions and general vibe for me was certainly of that car, which from an an aesthetic point of view got my attention.
The promise of a great driving experience I am relying on the lotus pedigree, so that aspect is not a concern to me. My driving is likely to be 95% road usage as a 3rd car.

My specific question is about the suspension and whether lotus typically offer lowering kits. The lower stance of the show car makes a huge difference to its aggressive look as did the wheel spacers. To achieve a similar look even by lowering the standard car ever so slightly would be great, but only if this was done with handling uncompromised...not something I guess is advisable or possible

To those of you more knowledgeable on such things, please can you share your thoughts. Having said all that, I am more than happy to leave the car as is, I guess I'm just excited at the prospect of owning this car and playing with ideas to keep my mind occupied in anticipation.

Thanks all
I might be talking out my head..... But as the Emira body shape causes down force once moving, which in effect pushes the car down, loading the suspention, compressing the springs...... you lowering the car could causes rubbing ? Am sure considering one of the things Lotus are best known for is suspention, and handeling...... can not see the need for extra springs
 

Climber

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I might be talking out my head..... But as the Emira body shape causes down force once moving, which in effect pushes the car down, loading the suspention, compressing the springs...... you lowering the car could causes rubbing ? Am sure considering one of the things Lotus are best known for is suspention, and handeling...... can not see the need for extra springs
Lotus has Consulted other manufacturers for Decades on improving their suspension set ups. This is the one thing I suspect will blow our minds on how good it is. Lotus says if you get it right there is no need for adjustable suspension.. hence 2 options. I think it’s Genius.
The reviews are only going to confirm what all of us suspect. I will be amazing.
Look at the Carfection video and the smile on Gavan Kershaw face. “ Priceless “ That was the blink moment when I put down a deposit. 😊
 

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Keep in mind Lotus R&D spends many MANY hours perfecting handling for their vehicles. That being said, you can certainly lower it a bit, but unfortunately the oem set up isn't adjustable.

Lotus is using Bilstein struts with Eibach springs. Most likely something similar to Bilstein B8s with Eibach Pro kit springs, but I'm sure they're using specific custom valving and spring rates for the Emira. So basically, Lotus is already using aftermarket stuff to perfect handling... It's already done for you.

But if you want to lower the stance a bit, you can always go with adjustable quality aftermarket coilovers (~$2-3k for KW V3s), but I'm not too familiar with what's available for Lotus vehicles. Aftermarket offerings are pretty slim for Lotus. If you do adjustable coilovers, you can dial in the exact height and dampening you like and corner balance it to perfection.

Spacers are usually fine as long as you don't go too big.. Something like 5-10mm would be ok, but remember to use proper extended wheel bolts and torque everything properly. These also add a bit of weight to the rotational mass, but it's minimal.
 
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I am completely sure that it will drive great, however I also thought about lowering it just because it will look better, but of course I don't want to make it ride worse. That's why I hope that it will just look fine with it's standard ride height. If not, I will wait for KW building custom coilovers for the Emira, which they will probably do (They already have coilovers for Elise, Exile and Evora). That's the only chance to make it lower without ruining it, but maybe even make it ride better.
 

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Keep in mind Lotus R&D spends many MANY hours perfecting handling for their vehicles. That being said, you can certainly lower it a bit, but unfortunately the oem set up isn't adjustable.

Lotus is using Bilstein struts with Eibach springs. Most likely something similar to Bilstein B8s with Eibach Pro kit springs, but I'm sure they're using specific custom valving and spring rates for the Emira. So basically, Lotus is already using aftermarket stuff to perfect handling... It's already done for you.

But if you want to lower the stance a bit, you can always go with adjustable quality aftermarket coilovers (~$2-3k for KW V3s), but I'm not too familiar with what's available for Lotus vehicles. Aftermarket offerings are pretty slim for Lotus. If you do adjust air coilovers, you can dial in the exact height and dampening you like and corner balance it to perfection.

Spacers are usually fine as long as you don't go too big.. Something like 5-10mm would be ok, but remember to use proper extended wheel bolts and torque everything properly. These also add a bit of weight to the rotational mass, but it's minimal.
Nice 👍 Thank You 🙏
 

FederGigant

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So ok.... lets just put any kit on..... nothing to do with the niether car are the same size or weight.... I have some ford focus spring perhaps they will fit :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
I think he was talking about lowering cup kits. The Evora has the same dampers (in terms of dimensions), so the cups will fit the Emira as well and do the same thing (lowering the car 18mm or so). I think they are also a good option for small money and don't change how the car behaves. It just sits lower on it's standard component. Way better than changing the springs.
 
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andrew6382

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I think he was talking about lowering cup kits. The Evora has the same dampers (in terms of dimensions), so the cups will fit the Emira as well and do the same thing (lowering the car 10mm or so).
Ok perhaps.......
I just dont see the point of messing..... the dampers may fit....

You dont know how the inners are set up......do you ?

I met one of the guys setting up the Emira the day we went...... He could drive rings around me.... and i think most on the site..... I asked him about suspension , with my limited know how...... what he knew...... just blow my mind and simple understanding :)

Do you know if the spring travel is there to let springs compress at high speed and not cause rub,
 

FederGigant

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The inners don't count when talking about lowering cups ;) They just make the springs have less tension and therefore the car sinks down a bit, until the springs have their tension back. of course the dampers are a bit more compressed then, but that doesn't change the characteristics. At least not to a point that you can feel. We are talking about the blue thing below the spring:
Bildschirmfoto 2022-02-27 um 17.46.26.png


The standard cup would look the same, but is a bit shorter, therefore the spring sits higher, get's more compressed and lifts the car. Those aftermarket cups are good for 3/4 inch or 18mm, I just looked it up. Here is the link: Evora Lowering Cups
 

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The inners don't count when talking about lowering cups ;) They just make the springs have less tension and therefore the car sinks down a bit, until the springs have their tension back. of course the dampers are a bit more compressed then, but that doesn't change the characteristics. At least not to a point that you can feel. We are talking about the blue thing below the spring:View attachment 3444

The standard cup would look the same, but is a bit shorter, therefore the spring sits higher, get's more compressed and lifts the car. Those aftermarket cups are good for 3/4 inch or 18mm, I just looked it up. Here is the link: Evora Lowering Cups
My point still stands...... am not spending 80K on a car, that people better than me have set up.... to lower and not know how its going to change thing...... if you lowering a cars CG please dont tell me its not going to effect how things load up. You still dont know if inners of Emira dampers are same as Evora cup..... Do you ? so you can not say whats going to happen
 

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The inners don't count when talking about lowering cups ;) They just make the springs have less tension and therefore the car sinks down a bit, until the springs have their tension back. of course the dampers are a bit more compressed then, but that doesn't change the characteristics. At least not to a point that you can feel. We are talking about the blue thing below the spring:View attachment 3444

The standard cup would look the same, but is a bit shorter, therefore the spring sits higher, get's more compressed and lifts the car. Those aftermarket cups are good for 3/4 inch or 18mm, I just looked it up. Here is the link: Evora Lowering Cups
I spy a little wheel spacer there too.

$475 seems like a lot of those cups.. Considering Eibach pro springs are typically ~$300 and it'd be the same amount of work to install those cups as it would be for new springs.
 

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My point still stands...... am not spending 80K on a car, that people better than me have set up.... to lower and not know how its going to change thing...... if you lowering a cars CG please dont tell me its not going to effect how things load up. You still dont know if inners of Emira dampers are same as Evora cup..... Do you ? so you can not say whats going to happen
As I said, it is completely irrelevant how the inners of the dampers are set up, because the lowering cups don't change anything, neither to the dampers nor to the springs. They just put the plate where the spring sits on to a lower position. Due to the weight of the car, the springs will be compressed back to standard compression, but because they are sitting lower on the damper (due to the cups), the car as a whole sits lower as a consequence. The only thing that changes is that the damper is 18mm more compressed. That however doesn't affect it's characteristics, because getting compressed is just what it's thought to do when riding the car. Of course you have a lower center of gravity then. And of course this will never lead to a worse driving behavior, but always to a better one, when nothing else is changed. There sure will be lowering cups made for the Emira as well, probably the same part as for the Evora, but with "Emira" written on it and they are worth considering. They will change less than aftermarket springs and less than aftermarket coilovers.
 
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FederGigant

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I spy a little wheel spacer there too.

$475 seems like a lot of those cups.. Considering Eibach pro springs are typically ~$300 and it'd be the same amount of work to install those cups as it would be for new springs.
That's right, but the cups work without the spacers as well. Just another part for better looks ;) And we could get philosophical about how those are changing the cars behavior as well, because they are adding rotational mass and widen the track of the car, but if they are this tiny, you will never ever feel it. Anything below 10mm per side should be no concern.
 

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Hi everyone. I'm about to bite the bullet and put my deposit down for a V6 FE. I've been undecided until now about the timing of doing so ever since I saw the car in the flesh. My background is more Porsche so I am unfamiliar with much about the Lotus experience. It was the blue car that I saw and it immediately reminded me of my old gallardo. The proportions and general vibe for me was certainly of that car, which from an an aesthetic point of view got my attention.
The promise of a great driving experience I am relying on the lotus pedigree, so that aspect is not a concern to me. My driving is likely to be 95% road usage as a 3rd car.

My specific question is about the suspension and whether lotus typically offer lowering kits. The lower stance of the show car makes a huge difference to its aggressive look as did the wheel spacers. To achieve a similar look even by lowering the standard car ever so slightly would be great, but only if this was done with handling uncompromised...not something I guess is advisable or possible

To those of you more knowledgeable on such things, please can you share your thoughts. Having said all that, I am more than happy to leave the car as is, I guess I'm just excited at the prospect of owning this car and playing with ideas to keep my mind occupied in anticipation.

Thanks all
Welcome! I think we've all got far too much time to think about different aspects of the car before we get to delivery - that's the reason for 90% of the discussions on here :)

There's a long thread about the suspension options which covers the Lotus approach to ride and handling and may reassure you about that aspect:

There was also a question on another thread about lowering. It has been done on the Evora as an aftermarket option, so we're assuming there will be similar options for the Emira too:

With Emira volumes forecast to be much higher than Evoras, I expect we'll see more aftermarket coverage. So there will be lowering cups, spacers, different dampers (including adjustable) and alternative springs. Some will have minimal effect on handling, others will be much more.

I take the view Lotus spent many hours developing the setup and I'm less inclined to do big modifications. I guess I'm also more wary now, having done lots of mods to cars years ago, up to the point where I blew an engine!
 

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As I said, it is completely irrelevant how the inners of the dampers are set up, because the lowering cups don't change anything, neither to the dampers nor to the springs. They just put the plate where the spring sits on to a lower position. Due to the weight of the car, the springs will be compressed back to standard compression, but because they are sitting lower on the damper (due to the cups), the car as a whole sits lower as a consequence. The only thing that changes is that the damper is 18mm more compressed. That however doesn't affect it's characteristics, because getting compressed is just what it's thought to do when riding the car. Of course you have a lower center of gravity then. And of course this will never lead to a worse driving behavior, but always to a better one, when nothing else is changed. There sure will be lowering cups made for the Emira as well, probably the same part as for the Evora, but with "Emira" written on it and they are worth considering. They will change less than aftermarket springs and less than aftermarket coilovers.
That you think that about changing CG will only have benefical effect..... tells me all I need to know..

I mirror some of what @TomE says ..... " I take the view Lotus spent many hours developing the setup and I'm less inclined to do big modifications. I guess I'm also more wary now, having done lots of mods to cars years ago, up to the point where I blew an engine! "
 

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Each to their own. Lowering a car 18mm without changing any suspension components certainly won't blow the engine or alike. I also didn't say that lowering CG is always beneficial. I said it is beneficial to lower CG, if EVERY other parameter stays the same. Changing the cups is doing exactly that to a certain degree. Of course there are tiny changes in the dampers behavior, because it now has to do it's job being 18mm more compressed all the time. The changes to the springs behavior are very close to 0 percent. They are 0% to be correct, but in reality there is an interaction with the dampers of course, so they are slightly affected by the more compressed dampers as well.
@andrew6382 you said that your knowledge about suspensions is very limited. How could it be then, that me talking about suspensions and a lower CG tells you "all you need to know"? I didn't get that. Could you maybe also state possible drawbacks from a lower CG (when nothing else about the cars components is changed)? No offense here, I'm just curious about that. Maybe I am overlooking something.
To make it clear again: The best solution for 99.9% of Emira customers is to leave the suspension untouched. Lowering the car is done mostly for the better looks. The solution with the lowering cups is changing the behavior of the car by 0.5-1%, maybe to the better, maybe to the worse. Good for everybody that can feel this kind of "difference".
 

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Each to their own. Lowering a car 18mm without changing any suspension components certainly won't blow the engine or alike. I also didn't say that lowering CG is always beneficial. I said it is beneficial to lower CG, if EVERY other parameter stays the same. Changing the cups is doing exactly that to a certain degree. Of course there are tiny changes in the dampers behavior, because it now has to do it's job being 18mm more compressed all the time. The changes to the springs behavior are very close to 0 percent. They are 0% to be correct, but in reality there is an interaction with the dampers of course, so they are slightly affected by the more compressed dampers as well.
@andrew6382 you said that your knowledge about suspensions is very limited. How could it be then, that me talking about suspensions and a lower CG tells you "all you need to know"? I didn't get that. Could you maybe also state possible drawbacks from a lower CG (when nothing else about the cars components is changed)? No offense here, I'm just curious about that. Maybe I am overlooking something.
To make it clear again: The best solution for 99.9% of Emira customers is to leave the suspension untouched. Lowering the car is done mostly for the better looks. The solution with the lowering cups is changing the behavior of the car by 0.5-1%, maybe to the better, maybe to the worse. Good for everybody that can feel this kind of "difference".
I said nothing about blowing engines. If as you say the "The changes to the springs behavior are very close to 0 percent". why bother.

You change the CG, changes how the weight loads, how much the suspention gets loaded up, how load is put in to the tyres..... how you generate grip, not even thinking about Toe, caster or camber. Lowering a car can effect aero....... But I guess F1 spend days setting cars up for the fun of it, working out why sometimes a small change in one element, effects another element

What i said with the little I know..... he knew a lot more.... I know plenty, was brought up with cars, engines, engneering, and build jet engine for fun :)
 
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