Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott on Emira & Eletre

Hagerty Carmudgeon Show podcast. Great unvarnished conversation, as always.




Some may remember Jason Cammisa's fantastic walkthrough of the history of the Elise, which is a required watch for Lotus fans.

 

[Porter]

FYI the Lotus content starts at about 16:00.

This is a GREAT conversation. One of the best Emira discussions from a US perspective that I've heard yet in any format.

 

[dgrace]

Has anyone else had the same complaints about the steering? (finding it a distinct step down in communication w/rt Evora/Exige/Elise)

 

[GetawayDriving]

Has anyone else had the same complaints about the steering? (finding it a distinct step down in communication w/rt Evora/Exige/Elise)

Step down from Exige/Elise 100%. Evora harder to say. I didn’t get enough curves when driving Evora.

 

[dgrace]

Step down from Exige/Elise 100%. Evora harder to say. I didn’t get enough curves when driving Evora.

Curious if the larger diameter front wheel might have impacted steering feel a bit relative to the previous models. The Evora GT was fantastic on my test drive; I'm hoping the Emira preserves as much as possible.

 

[luciddaydream]

I am listening to this.

Sad about the steering..

I come from a porsche 997, 991, and now 992.

According to my research, it seems the 997 had hydraulic and I wanted that with the Emira as it really connected me to the road.

I was hoping this lotus would have that same feeling. Darn.

Wonder if it could be improved with aftermarket stuff?

 

[kin]

I am listening to this.

Sad about the steering..

I come from a porsche 997, 991, and now 992.

According to my research, it seems the 997 had hydraulic and I wanted that with the Emira as it really connected me to the road.

I was hoping this lotus would have that same feeling. Darn.

Wonder if it could be improved with aftermarket stuff?

Idk the throttle house guys said it’s “pretty much better than every Porsche” and they also felt the 997’s hydraulic steering is not as much of a step up as they imagined from the new 992’s electric steering rack if you watch their 992 carrera S vs. 997 carrera S video.

It’s hard to get precise data around steering feel vs. handling as steering feel is pretty subjective whereas handling is objective.

Based on a lot of the reviews, throttle house guys included, it’s a slight step down from the evora, but not enough of a step down to be super specific, and it’s still better than Porsche.

 

[kitkat]

Idk the throttle house guys said it’s “pretty much better than every Porsche” and they also felt the 997’s hydraulic steering is not as much of a step up as they imagined from the new 992’s electric steering rack if you watch their 992 carrera S vs. 997 carrera S video.

It’s hard to get precise data around steering feel vs. handling as steering feel is pretty subjective whereas handling is objective.

Based on a lot of the reviews, throttle house guys included, it’s a slight step down from the evora, but not enough of a step down to be super specific, and it’s still better than Porsche.

Yes I was a little bit confused by this part of the show -- seems odd -- they weren't even sure in the beginning if it was a hydraulic rack or not.

Just for clarification for everyone all three variants of the Emira have a hydraulically assisted steering rack -- the only difference is the i4 AMG rack is hydraulic assisted with an electric pump.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

Idk the throttle house guys said it’s “pretty much better than every Porsche” and they also felt the 997’s hydraulic steering is not as much of a step up as they imagined from the new 992’s electric steering rack if you watch their 992 carrera S vs. 997 carrera S video.

It’s hard to get precise data around steering feel vs. handling as steering feel is pretty subjective whereas handling is objective.

Based on a lot of the reviews, throttle house guys included, it’s a slight step down from the evora, but not enough of a step down to be super specific, and it’s still better than Porsche.

I've owned a 997 GTS. Emira steering is definitely better than a 997. As they put it in the review, "this or a 911? Fuck the 911."

 

[JClem]

This is counter to every review I've seen of the v6 which singled out the steering and a huge positive. Harry Metcalf, Chris Harris, Matt Watson, the Smoking Tire guys, Shmee, Everyday Driver etc. etc. All commented on the feel and feedback of the steering.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

Agree with them on the brake bite. If you're even slightly careless the brakes can be very grabby past the dead spot.

 

[TomAce]

This is counter to every review I've seen of the v6 which singled out the steering and a huge positive. Harry Metcalf, Chris Harris, Matt Watson, the Smoking Tire guys, Shmee, Everyday Driver etc. etc. All commented on the feel and feedback of the steering.

I think you have to put into perspective, in the light of Lotus realm, that's what Jason Cammisa is referring to. Referring to the best of the best. It's still very good, but it's not as communcative as my Opel Speedster for example. It simply cannot. Evora of old did have 17" or 18" fronts iirc.

Agree with them on the brake bite. If you're even slightly careless the brakes can be very grabby past the dead spot.

I also know that feeling, that brakes are sometimes very grabby. It reacts very sensible to my seating position and shoes that I'm wearing, to be honest.

With Converse Chucks and the right seating position it was perfect the other day.

 

[ADC]

I think you have to put into perspective, in the light of Lotus realm, that's what Jason Cammisa is referring to. Referring to the best of the best. It's still very good, but it's not as communcative as my Opel Speedster for example. It simply cannot. Evora of old did have 17" or 18" fronts iirc.

They were pretty clear on where it stood in relation to feel on previous Lotus cars, but I think it was the statement that it feels about as good as a good (i.e. Porsche) electric rack that came across as faint praise.

Similarly, their take on the drivetrain was surprisingly out of step with a lot of views (in that they were more positive than many).

This basically just reinforces that you should listen to many opinions, consider all the input blended together, nod your head sagely, and then make up your own damn mind based on what you care about, rather than make decisions based on "what X said in their review"


I'll definitely +1 on the need to treat the brakes with respect... the bite is awesome when you are engaged / paying attention, potentially mayhem-causing (or embarrassing) if you are tuned out in traffic or whatnot.

 

[Chobfreak]

Since I'm currently driving my Emira quite a lot, I have to say that the steering feel unfortunately doesn't come close to my Opel GT Roadster's tactility and texture.

Mind you, it's still better than any modern car I've driven thus far.

A reality that becomes especially apparent, when I hop from current gen Camaro SS into either of them.

 

[GetawayDriving]

I also think steering feel can be affected by tire wear and alignment. If these cars were demos being battered over rough surfaces all week, maybe it rounded off some of the edges a bit.

 

[Nova]

I watched the whole thing and generally don't enjoy the review style of Jason Cammisa. I am sure he is very experienced at what he does, but the way he states things very forcefully and finally, stringing together a sequence of absolutes, laced with gratuitous cursing, makes it hard to glean any meaningful information, or at least seriously doubt my understanding.

 

[Porter]

I watched the whole thing and generally don't enjoy the review style of Jason Cammisa. I am sure he is very experienced at what he does, but the way he states things very forcefully and finally, stringing together a sequence of absolutes, laced with gratuitous cursing, makes it hard to glean any meaningful information, or at least seriously doubt my understanding.

Haha I actually love his style, it's all clearly his opinion but he does commit to an opinion in ways that are uncommon for most journalists.

 

[GetawayDriving]

So I'll say this as plainly as possible without any desire or intention to wade into politics.

There appears to be some likelihood of federal government shut down here in the U.S. after September 30.

Odds this delays certs further? It would appear the EPA would effectively shut down, likely NHTSA as well.

 

[kitkat]

Odds this delays certs further? It would appear the EPA would effectively shut down, likely NHTSA as well.

Politics aside, I'm hoping most of the federal level regulatory certifications are finished.

 

[Nova]

So I'll say this as plainly as possible without any desire or intention to wade into politics.

There appears to be some likelihood of federal government shut down here in the U.S. after September 30.

Odds this delays certs further? It would appear the EPA would effectively shut down, likely NHTSA as well.

Right, neither agency is fee-funded so they will shut down without some type of budget approval. However, I don't believe they are the long pole in the tent. CARB approval remains the single largest hurdle.