Emira performance - disappointing?

Finbarqs

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My understanding from JUBU product descriptions is that some of their ECUs/tunes allow for a higher redline but I'd highly doubt it's anywhere near 8K. I'd be happy with 7,000-7200 and not have it cut the power so hard although admittedly I didn't get much of a chance to test the rev limiter during my test drive.

Once warranty is out I'll be strongly considering the 460hp option but it's a bit premature for those decisions until we're driving the car around for longer periods IMHO.
Looking at some tune shops with that engine, some got it to tune up to 9k on their 2GR-FE… so I would think 8k would be easier, keeping the same bhp… but I’ll settle for 6.8k…. That’s like my 22’ g70… that redline comes up sooo quick though….
 

hagen111

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For those asking for a higher redline on a supercharged engine...these don't go well alongside in case you want torque at lower revs.

My 'best guess' is you can get the stock engine setup easily up to 460hp, as it is identical to the final editions of Exige and Evora. If you want to go beyond it will require bigger modifications. As well a 8k redline is also easy to get to, just make the supercharger run lower revs (and thus reduce torque at low revs), and you can just move the performance of the supercharger higher up the rev range and reduce the boost to get to 8k rev limit.

However, I absolutely love the current 400hp output, as the supercharged setup provides so much thrust coming out of corners and the cars is mega fast when really driving it in the mountains from one corner to another!
 

JonFuller

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I'd be happy with 7,000-7200 and not have it cut the power so hard .........
I'm really surprised that more folk don't comment on that 'hard' limiter.

It's my biggest complaint of the Emira setup, Too low, and too abrupt., it's SOOO abrupt, feels like someone pulls a wire off as it touches the limiter, rather than just stutter at the redline. I hate it.
Given the tech at hand, including the fly by wire throttle, you'd think they could give us a nice soft limiter.
I know the power charts suggest a flat torque curve right up to the limiter, but when I drive it, it feels like it really wakes up in the final 1500rpm. This prompts me to try and use all of that narrow but fun band of power, which in turn, means I'm prone to touching the dreaded, ultra harsh rev limiter, especially in the first couple of gears, where the numbers whizz by oh-so-fast, making it very hard to judge the lift/shift point as close to the limit as possible.

My thoughts are that historically, revving an engine out, it was easy to judge the point where it was time to shift, as you could feel the benefit of revving any higher was fading, this would usually happen before finding the red line & limiter. The Emira on the other hand, feels like that horrid, abrupt rev limiter kills everything just as the motor is REALLY waking up, making it easier to accidentally stumble into. Most annoying.

I note watching the video of the JUBU 460 Emira on the rolling road (with aftermarket ECU) when it touches the limiter, that sounds softer, and more traditional, just a stammer, rather than total cut.

Also looks like they have it revving to 7200-ish rpm, according to their charts.. Sounds nice.

See it here:

 
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Eagle7

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Don't know if this has been posted anywhere, but this is a pretty good review of an Emira being driven on the Bathurst track.

 

K_Squared

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I'm really surprised that more folk don't comment on that 'hard' limiter.

It's my biggest complaint of the Emira setup, Too low, and too abrupt., it's SOOO abrupt, feels like someone pulls a wire off as it touches the limiter, rather than just stutter at the redline. I hate it.
Given the tech at hand, including the fly by wire throttle, you'd think they could give us a nice soft limiter.
I know the power charts suggest a flat torque curve right up to the limiter, but when I drive it, it feels like it really wakes up in the final 1500rpm. This prompts me to try and use all of that narrow but fun band, which in turn, means I'm prone to touching the dreaded, ultra harsh rev limiter, especially in the first couple of gears, where the numbers whizz by oh-so-fast, making it very hard to judge the lift/shift point as close to the limit as possible.

My thoughts are that historically, revving an engine out, it was easy to judge the point where it was time to shift, as you could feel the benefit of revving any higher was fading, this would usually happen before finding the red line & limiter. The Emira on the other hand, feels like that horrid limiter kills everything just as the motor is REALLY waking up, making it easier to accidentally stumble into. Most annoying.

I note watching the video of the JUBU 460 Emira on the rolling road (with replacement ECU) when it touches the limiter, that sounds softer, and more traditional, just a stammer, rather than total cut.

See it here:
Also looks like they have it revving to 7200 ish according to their charts.. Sounds nice.
Yeah good call on the 7.2K RPM. It does appear that's what they rev it out to. Also notice where the peak power is in the below translated numbers from the following screenshot (hint: it's materially beyond the factory cut-off):

7,200 RPM redline
464hp @ 7,070rpm
360ft lb torque @ 4,630rpm

1703536691684.png

I have to think with this kit the Emira should be well under 4.0 secs to 60 despite the slow shift into 2nd. It is essentially a 15% increase in HP and roughly 16% in torque AND more time to use both based on the dyno results.

Unless I just love the power as is, this will be hard to resist come warranty expiration time. In my view, this would tip the Emira into it legitimately being fast enough in a straight line to support its supercar looks. It's probably very unnecessary on the road but I'm sure it would increase the fun factor by a decent margin.

EDIT: I did also notice their 435 version does NOT seem to have the higher redline and has much less low-end torque (between around 2-3.5K RPMs) compared to the 460:

1703537912426.png
 
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JonFuller

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.......should be well under 4.0 secs to 60 despite the slow shift into 2nd........

Yes, that's another disappointment for me, The syncro feels a little weak on 2nd gear to me.
It's OK under normal road driving, but if you try a 'sprint' through the lower gears using all the RPM's, the syncro feels inadequate on 2nd gear (grinds rather easily)

I may be wrong, but get the impression that this gearbox is not normally fitted to the V6 petrol engine in 'Toyota World', rather, it comes from a diesel setup, most likely chosen for it's bigger, more heavy duty design, to deal with the extra torque the blower provides. It maybe (if i'm right), that this setup's syncro cones etc, were just never designed, or intended to be syncronising those large, heavy, diesel gearbox components at circa 7000rpm. It's also plausible, that this application has Lotus using a heavier weight gear oil as part of their strategy to extend the life of the box, and that this further inhibits the ability of the syncros to do their job when in a hurry. My car's gearbox is considerably better (from a syncro point of view) once it's good and hot (very old skool Ferrari-esk), so definitely prefers 'runny' oil.

I'd be interested to know the difference between JUBUs' 460, and Komo-tecs', as there's a 3000 Euro difference in price, and I'm pretty sure the 460 doesn't get any internal engine work from either company. (as far as I can see, only the JUBU 500 gets much improved pistons & rods).
Given the locked-out Lotus ECU, I assume both company's have to change out the ECU to acheive the remap? JUBU certainly do, as they mention it in their blurb, saying you keep the old/stock ECU, that you can then refit it for 'warranty work' should it be needed :)

Given the Emira's virtual gauge cluster, complete with shift lights, red line etc, I wonder if the JUBU 460 has all this sorted, ie, the virtual red line on the display showing 7200 instead of 6800, and shift lights now flashing at the 'new' numbers. ?

TBH, 0-60 times are a bit academic and daft in my mind, not many lotus type folk are out there launching their cars at the lights....that's all a bit 'Revvin Kevin'. It's only really useful as a yardstick to demonstrate how lively the thing is (power to weight), I think a 50-100mph figure would be way better, and more telling (less dependant on super quick shift in that first change, and general abuse of the car to acheive a good figure), so that's a performance spec I'd personally like to see on cars, or even 50-150. That would give a good idea of how the straight-line performance would feel/compare on Track/Autobahn etc.
 
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JonFuller

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Yeah good call on the 7.2K RPM. It does appear that's what they rev it out to. Also notice where the peak power is in the below translated numbers from the following screenshot (hint: it's materially beyond the factory cut-off):

7,200 RPM redline
464hp @ 7,070rpm
360ft lb torque @ 4,630rpm

View attachment 34852
I have to think with this kit the Emira should be well under 4.0 secs to 60 despite the slow shift into 2nd. It is essentially a 15% increase in HP and roughly 16% in torque AND more time to use both based on the dyno results.

Unless I just love the power as is, this will be hard to resist come warranty expiration time. In my view, this would tip the Emira into it legitimately being fast enough in a straight line to support its supercar looks. It's probably very unnecessary on the road but I'm sure it would increase the fun factor by a decent margin.

EDIT: I did also notice their 435 version does NOT seem to have the higher redline and has much less low-end torque (between around 2-3.5K RPMs) compared to the 460:

View attachment 34854
That's odd. According to the charts you show, the 435 actually makes more peak torque than the 460, but just doesn't rev as high.
Is this a product of running the stock cast exhaust manifolds and pre-cats?? Or am I missing something? Confused of Shepperton.
 

K_Squared

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That's odd. According to the charts you show, the 435 actually makes more peak torque than the 460, but just doesn't rev as high.
Is this a product of running the stock cast exhaust manifolds and pre-cats?? Or am I missing something? Confused of Shepperton.
That's beyond my area of expertise in terms of the peak torque throughput as it seems puzzling to me. Based on the charts, though, the freer-breathing manifolds and cats in the 460 definitely appear to give it much more oomph at low RPMs. I think that will make it FEEL quite a bit faster than it probably is in terms of straight-line speed.
 
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