Emira automatic in the flesh...anyone?

[Andrea]

Hi guys, Andrea from Italy here; since some demo Emira have been dispatched to the dealers and some of us test drove them (I had one test drive myself) I was wondering if anyone saw a car with the automatic transmission.

As far as I know they are all manual and that put me making myself some obvious questions (Why? Is there any problems? Will they have delays? Is it good enough? etc...) and it makes me a little worried (I've ordered it Automatic)...

Thanks!

P.s. Sorry for my english, please be patient

 

[JohnHoward]

Ho guys, Andrea from Italy here; since some demo Emira have been dispatched to the dealers and some of us test drove them (I had one test drive myself) I was wondering if anyone saw a car with the automatic transmission.

As far as I know they are all manual and that put me making myself some obvious questions (Why? Is there any problems? Will they have delays? Is it good enough? etc...) and it makes me a little worried (I've ordered it Automatic)...

Thanks!

P.s. Sorry for my english, please be patient

Hello Andrea, I also have an auto on order. It seems that the V6 auto does not have Type Approval which is part of the homologation process for new vehicles. Homologation translates to 'omologare' in Italian. The evidence for this is as follows:

• In the UK, it is not possible to get an insurance quote as the V6 auto is not listed on the insurance databases, the usual reason for that is that the car does not have Type Approval.
• I asked Lotus if they had Type Approval for the V6 auto and they replied to say that they did not discuss Type Approval. The only conclusion I could draw from that is that they do not have it, otherwise, I am sure they would be happy to confirm it.
• A member of this forum in Australia was told by their dealer that Type Approval had not been achieved.
• I emailed further questions to Lotus, but they have not replied with satisfactory answers, one of the answers referred to the 2.0L engine, which I had not asked about. The other reply told me to look on the internet or try telephoning a broker, this was after I explained that the car is not listed on insurance databases. It seems to take 3 or 4 days for them to reply to each enquiry so the process of getting information very slow, but I want everything in writing.

The longer this drags on, the more I wonder if we will see the V6 auto as it seems that the auto only accounts for around 15% of the V6 production (for UK orders), so it will not be a large number of cars in the V6 run overall and as such may not generate enough revenue to spend a lot of money resolving the issue. If this did happen, no doubt some would drop out entirely, but there would be some that would switch to manual and some to the 2.0L auto. Lotus are clearly not customer orientated and would simply ignore any short term bad publicity, if there was any. I do hope that I am proved wrong on this theory, in fact I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

 

[roundincircles]

Andrea, the V6 Auto is in production this month (October). Lotus have a limited supply of gearboxes. I suspect these are being allocated to customers rather than dealers as most potential customers prefer a manual box; as evidenced by sales mix/numbers.

Type approval is in process and it will happen.... in the future, as and when it happens but definitely soon

 

[TomE]

I've seen Auto pre-production cars at the factory. I know gearbox supply is an issue, hence several auto customers have been more delayed than manual customers.

As JohnHoward highlights, it appears type approval has been delayed. But as roundincircles has said, they are building auto cars in the October batch (at least for UK customers). If type approval isn't resolved during October then those cars may be built but then held back from delivery until approval is achieved.

 

[JohnHoward]

Andrea, the V6 Auto is in production this month (October). Lotus have a limited supply of gearboxes. I suspect these are being allocated to customers rather than dealers as most potential customers prefer a manual box; as evidenced by sales mix/numbers.

Type approval is in process and it will happen.... in the future, as and when it happens but definitely soon

I feel that from my dealing with Lotus Customer Services that they are very much detached from what is happening in the factory and as such anything that they say regarding production is either plain wrong or said to placate the customer and just get, a usually poorly written and misspelled, e.mail back to the customer.
Unless I have missed any posts on here, I am not aware of anyone who has seen autos on the line on the factory tours recently. There are almost like the 'dark verdant mystery' of months gone by.
I would hope there will be some auto demo cars for those of us that have an auto on order (subject to Type Approval).
We will have to see, as I said before I really do hope my assumptions are wrong and if so, I would happily admit it and would apologise for causing unecessary alarm for the auto cohort.

 

[roundincircles]

I feel that from my dealing with Lotus Customer Services that they are very much detached from what is happening in the factory and as such anything that they say regarding production is either plain wrong or said to placate the customer and just get, a usually poorly written and misspelled, e.mail back to the customer.
Unless I have missed any posts on here, I am not aware of anyone who has seen autos on the line on the factory tours recently. There are almost like the 'dark verdant mystery' of months gone by.
I would hope there will be some auto demo cars for those of us that have an auto on order (subject to Type Approval).
We will have to see, as I said before I really do hope my assumptions are wrong and if so, I would happily admit it and would apologise for causing unecessary alarm for the auto cohort.

I was assured I could visit Hethel to test drive an auto if none at my dealer. But haven’t followed through as if manual drives OK then I will be OK. I have seen various videos and forum comments of/about the auto change action in sport setting and it appears smooth and the change seems fast enough. Certainly the Jag Sports car has a sequential box and that’s good. I have had many DCT boxes and not all are good due to software foibles and hesitancy off the line and at low speeds.

 

[TomE]

I agree about the lack of autos seen on recent factory visits and the lack of info from LCC.

UK dealers also have no info about the status of the auto.

With the recent decision by Lotus to only supply each dealer with one demo car and no show car initially, several dealers have asked if Lotus could run some regional test drives for cars in the alternative specs. Particularly Sports/Touring and Manual/Auto, given dealers will only have one suspension and transmission setup. The answer from Lotus was no.

 

[JohnHoward]

I was assured I could visit Hethel to test drive an auto if none at my dealer. But haven’t followed through as if manual drives OK then I will be OK. I have seen various videos and forum comments of/about the auto change action in sport setting and it appears smooth and the change seems fast enough. Certainly the Jag Sports car has a sequential box and that’s good. I have had many DCT boxes and not all are good due to software foibles and hesitancy off the line and at low speeds.

I had an Evora 410 Sport Auto and I was very happy with the gearbox. The blips on down shifts in Sport mode sounded amazing. Also, no problem with the speed of shifts on the paddles.

 

[roundincircles]

It’s all negative groundswell and getting worse……what is the leadership afraid off! Maybe leadership!

 

[TomE]

The approach to comms is built on three principles:

• Lotus will only release information they are confident is correct and accurate, otherwise it's better to say nothing (tricky when lots of things are unpredictable and changing)
• Lotus think getting cars out to dealers and customers is their only focus and will then solve everything comms-related (it might, for those who hang on long enough, but not helped by further delays)
• They've got a waiting list of 18+ months, so it appears not to matter to them if a few people drop out

 

[roundincircles]

The approach to comms is built on three principles:

• Lotus will only release information they are confident is correct and accurate, otherwise it's better to say nothing (tricky when lots of things are unpredictable and changing)
• Lotus think getting cars out to dealers and customers is their only focus and will then solve everything comms-related (it might, for those who hang on long enough, but not helped by further delays)
• They've got a waiting list of 18+ months, so it appears not to matter to them if a few people drop out

Understand that strategy but what's missing is brand management/perception and customer expectation. At the moment the view is Lotus don't care/have no interest in customer connection/are arrogant and judge they are masters of the universe. As we know that's not the case but communication to manage customer expectation is missing and will begin to impact. There is a lack of equity between Lotus and the customer.

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

i am also on the Auto batch for Spain from the very beginning.

Out of the 9 customer FE V6 and 2 dealer assigned for Spain, at least 3 of us are Auto, and one demo for the dealer.
Actually the dealer ordered both in Auto, and changed one for Manual a couple of months ago, when they announced extra delays for Auto, to be able to have as soon as possible a demo/test car. This manual magma red for the dealer is supposed to arrive in Bilbao dealership mid October.
Last info for my Auto from dealer is still on build Oct, Nov delivery, and no reference about type approval. They did seem to have a problem as of last month with the supplier of the paddle shift.
As for homologation in Spain, they are in the final stage of the process for both Manual and Auto, but supposedly it is down now only to administrative process in the relevant authority, Ministry of Industry in our case, and there is no signs of any difference regarding the registration for Auto vs Manual.
All the technical reports for homologation were done long time ago for both versions and positive by the independent surveyor.
Insurance quotes does not help me at all, since here it only appears Lotus Emira, no option for Auto or Manual, weird.
I don't know whether UK will apply different measurements than Spain/EU that can cause a problem in homologation of the Auto, and whether this can be easily solved it it were the case.
Fingers crossed!

 

[TomE]

Useful info. In the UK the Auto and Manual both have to be measured for emissions as part of the approval, as the figures are different. Hence why they both need to be approved.

 

[Lotustoronto]

• They've got a waiting list of 18+ months, so it appears not to matter to them if a few people drop out

I think this will be more than a few, If the re-sale market corrects....

 

[RENDERMAN]

Useful info. In the UK the Auto and Manual both have to be measured for emissions as part of the approval, as the figures are different. Hence why they both need to be approved.

No one is going to drop out, we want this car too much!!

 

[RENDERMAN]

Hello Andrea, I also have an auto on order. It seems that the V6 auto does not have Type Approval which is part of the homologation process for new vehicles. Homologation translates to 'omologare' in Italian. The evidence for this is as follows:

• In the UK, it is not possible to get an insurance quote as the V6 auto is not listed on the insurance databases, the usual reason for that is that the car does not have Type Approval.
• I asked Lotus if they had Type Approval for the V6 auto and they replied to say that they did not discuss Type Approval. The only conclusion I could draw from that is that they do not have it, otherwise, I am sure they would be happy to confirm it.
• A member of this forum in Australia was told by their dealer that Type Approval had not been achieved.
• I emailed further questions to Lotus, but they have not replied with satisfactory answers, one of the answers referred to the 2.0L engine, which I had not asked about. The other reply told me to look on the internet or try telephoning a broker, this was after I explained that the car is not listed on insurance databases. It seems to take 3 or 4 days for them to reply to each enquiry so the process of getting information very slow, but I want everything in writing.

The longer this drags on, the more I wonder if we will see the V6 auto as it seems that the auto only accounts for around 15% of the V6 production (for UK orders), so it will not be a large number of cars in the V6 run overall and as such may not generate enough revenue to spend a lot of money resolving the issue. If this did happen, no doubt some would drop out entirely, but there would be some that would switch to manual and some to the 2.0L auto. Lotus are clearly not customer orientated and would simply ignore any short term bad publicity, if there was any. I do hope that I am proved wrong on this theory, in fact I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

Please clarify two points that I'm confused about, does this means you cannot own an auto trans in the UK because of insurance? and if so, wouldn't the 2.0 make it auto as well?

 

[Andrea]

This thread 'V6 auto emira on track' just gave me a lot of hope

 

[CDM1855]

Please clarify two points that I'm confused about, does this means you cannot own an auto trans in the UK because of insurance? and if so, wouldn't the 2.0 make it auto as well?

It’s not easy to get insurance quotes unless the car has government type approval, Meaning it has satisfied all of
the regulations, and been signed off for road use

At this time we believe that the auto V6 hasn’t completed this yet, but it’s very close. There are V6 Autos being built this month and hopefully handed over to customers in Nov or December

 

[JohnHoward]

Please clarify two points that I'm confused about, does this means you cannot own an auto trans in the UK because of insurance? and if so, wouldn't the 2.0 make it auto as well?

The answer to both questions is no, please let me expand further.
The automatic V6 does not have Type Approval in the UK which is part of the homologation process for all new cars. They have to pass a number of tests, have emissions measured etc. Each country/territory have their own rules, but as far as I know they are all broadly similar. An example of differing requirements between the UK and US for example is that US cars need the orange indicators/reflectors on the sides whereas UK cars do not have this requirement. No doubt some things in the US could vary from state to state, but not sure on this.
The big clue for us in the UK about a car not having Type Approval is that you can't get an insurance quote from any of the UK insurers. Once a car has Type Approval a company called Thatcham have the contract to load the data onto the insurers databases and then the insurers apply their risk profiles to generate an insurance quote. In the UK we have a some large websites that offer comparison services and will compare many insurers once your info is loaded into the comparison site. It makes insurance shopping very easy, I would have thought there may be something similar in the US perhaps?
A car manufacturer cannot sell a road legal car without Type Approval, so there is not a situation where you buy a car intended for road use and then cannot insure it.
The 2.0L will have to go through homologation/Type Approval separately (the V6 manual and auto are also classed as separate cars as emissions are different). The process is done with a mixture of in house tests that are signed off by the relevant authorities at different stages of design, prototype and final production. This allows the manufacturer to resolve any issues as they crop up, rather than present a final car for testing to be told they have to strip it all down to make changes.
Of course the 2.0L is auto only so they will only have the one get to get approved once they eventually finalise development and start to build them.
I think from the questions that I have asked and the help I have received from forum members along with some information directly from Lotus that the Type Approval for the V6 auto is delayed due to some final missing parts. My best guess is that they are waiting for final emissions tests and the missing parts are essential for these, so could be ECU chips or some engine management parts perhaps (only my best guess, I don't have any evidence to back this up).
Hope this helps and best wishes from the UK!

 

[RENDERMAN]

It’s not easy to get insurance quotes unless the car has government type approval, Meaning it has satisfied all of
the regulations, and been signed off for road use

At this time we believe that the auto V6 hasn’t completed this yet, but it’s very close. There are V6 Autos being built this month and hopefully handed over to customers in Nov or December

Ok makes more sense, just a matter of timing..