AMG M139 HP

GarrethN

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Maybe I‘m just being cynical but with Lotus stating they have “tuned” the AMG engine to 360HP, are we right to assume they did a typo and forgot to put “de” before “tuned”?
Does anyone know of a good reason why they would significantly lower this engine’s potential output, or is it just a ploy to readily overprice the same engine for “special” editions? Maybe also a way of still charging more for a V6 that is easily matched by a four pot.

I still intend to get the four pot with DCT anyway just in the hope someone will bring out an easy fix to put the engine back to the power it should have.
 

Lotushavefun

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First Edition Models will all be basic HP for both the AMG and V6 engines. Once Sales have stabilized and filled, Lotus will slowly release higher HP engines to keep the numbers of units going to increase revenue. Good for Lotus sales, bad for buyers due to loss of time (Long wait). It will be a few more years of waiting for the upgraded units to be released. My two cents.
 

PaulP

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That seems like a really shady business practice. I would assume however that i will be able to take this car to a tuner and have the AMG significantly boosted in performance if the potential is there.
 

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Maybe I‘m just being cynical but with Lotus stating they have “tuned” the AMG engine to 360HP, are we right to assume they did a typo and forgot to put “de” before “tuned”?
Does anyone know of a good reason why they would significantly lower this engine’s potential output, or is it just a ploy to readily overprice the same engine for “special” editions? Maybe also a way of still charging more for a V6 that is easily matched by a four pot.

I still intend to get the four pot with DCT anyway just in the hope someone will bring out an easy fix to put the engine back to the power it should have.
Lotus have said they are detuning the peak power in order to meet their own requirements for driveability, emissions and other factors. The base AMG application has quite a peaky torque curve whereas recent Lotus cars have a pretty linear power delivery. I'm expecting they'll have increased the lower end torque and extended the peak (now reduced to 360hp) higher up the rev range. This isn't just re-mapping the ECU, it involves changing the intakes and exhaust too.

They also have a very clear emissions target to meet to keep the emissions-related sales and annual taxes as low as they can in relevant countries. The V6 is eye-wateringly expensive on emissions taxes in some geographies.

And yes of course it gives them some headroom for the R/S/430/450 model later :)
 

TomE

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That seems like a really shady business practice. I would assume however that i will be able to take this car to a tuner and have the AMG significantly boosted in performance if the potential is there.
Why shady? They are tuning the engine to suit their purpose and made no secret of the fact they are reducing the peak power in order to meet other requirements. It's not like they've published a fuel consumption figure and used a test-defeat ECU programme to mask the true performance, like some manufacturers have done :)

You can take your car to a tuner, provided they can decrypt the Lotus ECU or are prepared to throw it away and use their own. If they give you a warranty on the ECU (and the rest of the drivetrain) after that work - or you aren't worried about the warranty - then that's fine. Same situation on the V6 in the Evora/Exige - you can get to 450hp+ but check what warranty the tuner will give.
 
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Singularity

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Lotus have said they are detuning the peak power in order to meet their own requirements for driveability, emissions and other factors. The base AMG application has quite a peaky torque curve whereas recent Lotus cars have a pretty linear power delivery. I'm expecting they'll have increased the lower end torque and extended the peak (now reduced to 360hp) higher up the rev range. This isn't just re-mapping the ECU, it involves changing the intakes and exhaust too.

They also have a very clear emissions target to meet to keep the emissions-related sales and annual taxes as low as they can in relevant countries. The V6 is eye-wateringly expensive on emissions taxes in some geographies.

And yes of course it gives them some headroom for the R/S/430/450 model later :)
Regarding the AMG engine, EVO have stated that the forthcoming hybrid to be used in the C63 will fit the Emira. I’m presuming this means the ICE component only since some of the diagrams I’ve seen put the battery pack and electric motors at the other end of the car to the ICE. This clearly wouldn’t work for the Emira and I suspect the additional weight would wreck the handling. Does:
  • anyone have any further info on this;
  • and to current Lotus owners do the cars really benefit from more than the stock power?
If it were possible, as TomE noted this would really up the headroom for a future upgraded version……. 500hp+ Emira anyone?

(BTW - I currently have the 2018 AMG45 engine and can testify that it is brutally effective for a 4 pot!)
 

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That's really interesting and also surprising. Publicly Lotus have said the Emira will be petrol only and the future sportscars will be fully electric rather than hybrid.

Packaging and weight are challenges for a hybrid, with having to get batteries and electric motors in as well as an engine. That's why hybrids are often 15-20% heavier than the petrol-only or EV version.

It's an intriguing idea and maybe Lotus would consider it as an alternative model in the product plan if regulations affecting petrol cars are slower to take effect. They did build a prototype hybrid Evora and Infiniti built the Emerg-E hybrid prototype based on an Evora chassis, so they have the expertise to do it.

If you want an idea of what can be achieved with upgrading power take a look for "Time Attack 500hp Lotus Exige V6" on YouTube. It's the same V6 Toyota engine as the Evora and Emira ... on steroids!
 
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GarrethN

GarrethN

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Regarding the AMG engine, EVO have stated that the forthcoming hybrid to be used in the C63 will fit the Emira. I’m presuming this means the ICE component only since some of the diagrams I’ve seen put the battery pack and electric motors at the other end of the car to the ICE. This clearly wouldn’t work for the Emira and I suspect the additional weight would wreck the handling. Does:
  • anyone have any further info on this;
  • and to current Lotus owners do the cars really benefit from more than the stock power?
If it were possible, as TomE noted this would really up the headroom for a future upgraded version……. 500hp+ Emira anyone?

(BTW - I currently have the 2018 AMG45 engine and can testify that it is brutally effective for a 4 pot!)
It will be very interesting to see how things develop with AMG. For me, it’s a case of starting with a V6 and waiting to see how the new engine partnership develops, and what upgrades come along, by which time we might just be able to test drive one if they don’t keep selling them all !!
 

Widman

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First Edition Models will all be basic HP for both the AMG and V6 engines. Once Sales have stabilized and filled, Lotus will slowly release higher HP engines to keep the numbers of units going to increase revenue. Good for Lotus sales, bad for buyers due to loss of time (Long wait). It will be a few more years of waiting for the upgraded units to be released. My two cents.
I was told today by my dealer in Northern CA that the all 2022 production will be V6 1st Edition and the AMG will start
production Jan 2023 with delivery 2 months later. Much later than anticipated!
 

Tommyboy1986

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This sounds about right .
I believe this is the case for the Uk apparently the i4 will start to hit the Uk at the end of 2022 but looking at the number I can see a delay .. no idea what the Knock on effect will be for the us ..
 

TomE

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I think we'll have a better idea in December after they close the V6 FE round and know how many they need to build. My rough calcs on UK numbers suggested possibly 100-200 UK i4 FEs delivered at the end of 2022 but it depends on how many non-UK V6 FE are ordered versus the initial allocation.
 

EM12AAM

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I was told today by my dealer in Northern CA that the all 2022 production will be V6 1st Edition and the AMG will start
production Jan 2023 with delivery 2 months later. Much later than anticipated!
This was confirmed to me at the Emira event at Lotus Silverstone yesterday. The i4 FEs are not expected to go into production until 2023 and first cars expected to be delivered that Spring...
 
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PaulP

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This was confirmed to me at the Emira event at Lotus Silverstone yesterday. The i4 FEs are not expected to go into production until 2022 and first cars expected to be delivered that Spring...
2023?
 

irishboy77

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The engine might fit but where would the battery go? I assume in the C63 it will be under the boot floor.
I'd say put the batteries over the front axle.... maybe smaller pack than the c63 perhaps...

I know the new c63 engine is mounted differently too... so it could be engine up front and batteries in the back?
 

Singularity

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I'm not quite sure what the provenance of the original statement was in the EVO article (and I was the one who posted it), but having thought about it it again recently it may just refer to the upgraded ICE part of the setup. Lotus have made a big thing about the Emira being their last ICE car so it might dilute the marketing to even make it mild hybrid.

I was also pondering some of the engineering based on what I saw of the dealer show car. A small(ish) (just a few kWh) battery pack for peak power supply could be located low down behind the seats - sort of mini Evija fashion. While adding weight, this wouldn't compromise the Emira's balance too much.

However, the bigger challenge would be the electric motor(s) and unless AMG are planning something that integrates the motors into the engine/gearbox setup in a way that preserves the packaging then I think this is purely fantasy. What I've seen so far suggests the motors at the other end from the engine in the C63.

So the next evolution of the 2.0 ICE will likely fit, I presume it's part of the reason Lotus went to AMG to have a sustainable engine option in the future since AMG will respond to future emissions regulations through engine development. However, even if the ICE unit is more powerful (and rumours suggest AMG have extracted a few more ponies from it) then there's no guarantee the Emira would adopt this state of tune; the current unit is already 'adjusted' down from the A45S implementation by some 50hp or so to meet whatever requirements Lotus has for it. I realise this could be various; torque profile, exhaust noise or even mpg (though suspect the latter will appeal to only a few Emira owners!) but the cynic in me thinks (perhaps wrongly) it is a marketing move to put clear space between the V6 and the i4 for now and I can understand that.

Once the V6 run has ended then Lotus have the headroom to do more with i4 model and I suspect we'll see some specials with various tune states (as per Evora / Exige) - especially towards the latter half of the model life.

Personally, given my planned i4 is going to be more GT sports for touring rather than track day weapon, I've come to the conclusion I'll be plenty happy with 360hp on the road. I'm more fixated on lower speed driver feedback so I can enjoy the car in more situations, even when not trying to press on at 7/10 or more. I had a Scooby back in the late nineties which was fairly quick for the time. I loved the car for blending practicality and performance, but the problem was that the steering was a tad numb and it, and the chassis, didn't come alive and offer feedback until you were starting to go silly speeds.

I remember a review once that compared the original R8 and the RS3 which in straight line speed were comparable (the RS3 might have even edged it). There was a quote from the review that has stuck with me (and tempered my addiction for acceleration and outright power!) which was

'it's more about how you go fast, than how fast you go'​

So I'm pretty certain that if there are future Emira 'specials' with more power I'll be tempted to swap (after all, that addiction was just tempered and not eradicated!), but only if the upgrades don't compromise the low speed enjoyment!
 

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