Today's Financial Times | Carmaker Lotus plans to end production in the UK

Is this confirmed news ?
https://www.ft.com/.../dc5948e6-6645-405b-a556-df06b1ad26be

 

[Tomwa]

You can say you disagree but your point is that no one will want sports cars unless they’re made in the same country as their founding.

With those examples you are wrong. They’re literally produced in a country other than their origin and they have plenty of demand.

The hell you mean?

The GT-R is now out of production, but was literally only built in Japan. There were no US Assembly plants, no Euro ones. Engines hand built by like 5 different dudes. Pretty explicitly only built in Japan.

BMW M3 Build pretty much exclusively in Munich. Now that they are building an EV M3 that will be done in Munich but they are talking about the next G50 cars being built in Dingolfing. Which is ALSO Germany."

Not mexico. Not phillipines. Not Portugal. What are you talking about?

 

[DerTheDer]

Mazdas and Fords are built in Mexico, at least some of them are.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I will give my 2 cents - After thinking about this logically I do not believe they will stop UK production for the ICE sports car program. This article gives me vibes of being planted to boost Lotus sales of now the “last” UK made Lotus. Just like the bump of last ICE Lotus - but we now have an Eletre arriving with hybrid powertrain.

Do I think they will assemble hybrid Eletre’s in the Volvo plant in South Carolina? Yes, I think that is very likely to avoid US tarrifs, but closing Hethel would be brand killing. If Lotus closes Hethel, it is no longer a Lotus. I know many people believe Lotus died in 2017 when Geely bought them, but I don’t believe that.

To re-tool a factory and invest another x amount of millions to build a low volume sports car that already has low tarrifs (10% total) in the US market (uk/us trade deal) is non sensical. However, the Eletre/Emeya/Macan rival SUV makes complete sense to enter the US market. I think we are seeing a planted piece of journalism.

 

[VF Tuner]

This reads like Lotus is about to be non existent.
unable to pay suppliers... but would be able to front the cost to move their entire manufacturing to another country? USA? Manufacturing in America aint cheap.

 

[dgedition]

This reads like Lotus is about to be non existent.
unable to pay suppliers... but would be able to front the cost to move their entire manufacturing to another country? USA? Manufacturing in America aint cheap.

Yeah, I’m not sure why everyone is bickering about a cars origin when suppliers not being paid is the big takeaway.

 

[Lotustoronto]

They just got another 120M loan from Geely this week - which was absent in the Q1 report as it happened a few days ago.

https://www.tipranks.com/news/compa...cures-119-million-convertible-note-with-geely

 

[DerTheDer]

Businesses tend to fail when they promote poor leadership, or let bad leadership stagnate. In this case I believe it is a large majority of the problem.

 

[MrClean]

I find it hard to believe Hethel would be shutdown for the brand/heritage reasons and the $100M+ investment Geely made in the manufacturing facility.

Hethel is synonymous with Lotus.

Shutting it down permanently would risk damaging the brand’s credibility and alienating the enthusiast and legacy customer base that still views Lotus as a quintessentially British sports car manufacturer.

Like others have said, the EVs and future hybrids that would be made in China, I could see setting up shop in the USA, but I still see their sports cars being made in Hethel.

We’ll see.

 

[B r I a n]

My concern is they have not been profitable in a long, long time (2017 and was only $2M?). I do not see them becoming profitable in the next few years - at best case. I don't see how they can keep pumping funds into in, what do they believe their big payoff is going to be?

 

[VF Tuner]

I find it hard to believe Hethel would be shutdown for the brand/heritage reasons and the $100M+ investment Geely made in the manufacturing facility.

Hethel is synonymous with Lotus.

Shutting it down permanently would risk damaging the brand’s credibility and alienating the enthusiast and legacy customer base that still views Lotus as a quintessentially British sports car manufacturer.

Like others have said, the EVs and future hybrids that would be made in China, I could see setting up shop in the USA, but I still see their sports cars being made in Hethel.

We’ll see.

I love my evora and my Emira...but lets be honest here.
Lotus has forever had questionable build quality.
Their brand name and heritage is synonymous with "problems"
and the very small loyal customer base isn't paying the bills.

Pair that with bad internal business decisions that only hurt the brand more... it's not a good look for Lotus.

You can see this just by looking at the new Emira. The 4 cylinder version of the car is rotting on the lots here in America.
the V6 version..... which uses the exact same drivetrain as the Evora GT, is somehow riddled with new issues...issues that do not exist on the Evora GT.


Again I love my 2 lotus vehicles but when you're asking over 100k price tag, having power steering pump problems, clutch failures, random DTCs, and more on a drivetrain you have been working on and experienced with for 16 years, it's just inexcusable.

not to mention the Emira has the biggest price tag and *least* track dedicated feeling of any Lotus. Hate me for the statement if you want but it does not have the hand-built soul other lotuses have...

 

[Eagle7]

I love my evora and my Emira...but lets be honest here.
Lotus has forever had questionable build quality.
Their brand name and heritage is synonymous with "problems"
and the very small loyal customer base isn't paying the bills.

Pair that with bad internal business decisions that only hurt the brand more... it's not a good look for Lotus.

You can see this just by looking at the new Emira. The 4 cylinder version of the car is rotting on the lots here in America.
the V6 version..... which uses the exact same drivetrain as the Evora GT, is somehow riddled with new issues...issues that do not exist on the Evora GT.


Again I love my 2 lotus vehicles but when you're asking over 100k price tag, having power steering pump problems, clutch failures, random DTCs, and more on a drivetrain you have been working on and experienced with for 16 years, it's just inexcusable.

not to mention the Emira has the biggest price tag and *least* track dedicated feeling of any Lotus. Hate me for the statement if you want but it does not have the hand-built soul other lotuses have...

"somehow riddled"? New manufacturing system, new paint system, new body panels with a new process, new electronics with new features never before on a Lotus, new more sophisticated and complex electronics, new and much stiffer regulations and requirements no Lotus has ever had to meet before.....

My Emira is and has been fantastic. No problems, and I'm not the only one. They're on the edge of almost getting their balance so they can become successful. What they build and where isn't the real issue holding them back.

What Lotus needs is a better direction and strategy instead of trying to compete with Porsche without the massive distribution, service and support Porsche has. They're a boutique brand. They need to start by partnering with somebody for dealers and service. If they don't fix the customer interface and support issue, it won't matter what they build or where. It's frustrating because their problems are solvable, just needs somebody who 'gets it' and has the authority and budget to do so.

 

[VF Tuner]

"somehow riddled"? New manufacturing system, new paint system, new body panels with a new process, new electronics with new features never before on a Lotus, new more sophisticated and complex electronics, new and much stiffer regulations and requirements no Lotus has ever had to meet before.....

My Emira is and has been fantastic. No problems, and I'm not the only one. They're on the edge of almost getting their balance so they can become successful. What they build and where isn't the real issue holding them back.

What Lotus needs is a better direction and strategy instead of trying to compete with Porsche without the massive distribution, service and support Porsche has. They're a boutique brand. They need to start by partnering with somebody for dealers and service. If they don't fix the customer interface and support issue, it won't matter what they build or where. It's frustrating because their problems are solvable, just needs somebody who 'gets it' and has the authority and budget to do so.

Yes but many folks are having issues with their Emiras. It's hit and miss.
And sorry but body panels, electronics, paint... that doesn't explain clutch failures and power steering failures.

Again, we are talking about a car with a price tag of nearly 120k USD for some version / trim / colors.

Lotus *should* have done what other boutique brands do, and that is use *well known* and working electronic components from larger manufacturers that are completely issue free, like what Aston Martin does, for example.
I am only speaking from the reality of this brand. We all love it or we wouldn't buy one. I have nearly $200k invested in lotus vehicles.

It seems to me Lotus did not do enough testing on the Emira before selling it, and it's showing.
Pair that with the fact lotus really bent over a majority of their clients with this 4 cylinder version car, which is the only option in some countries was (at least to me) a terrible decision.

Saying they did so because of emissions regulations falls short in my eyes. I think (just my opinion) Lotus chose that because of cost. Mercedes is offloading their engine that *nobody wants* onto lotus.

 

[DerTheDer]

Yes but many folks are having issues with their Emiras. It's hit and miss.
And sorry but body panels, electronics, paint... that doesn't explain clutch failures and power steering failures.

Again, we are talking about a car with a price tag of nearly 120k USD for some version / trim / colors.

Lotus *should* have done what other boutique brands do, and that is use *well known* and working electronic components from larger manufacturers that are completely issue free, like what Aston Martin does, for example.
I am only speaking from the reality of this brand. We all love it or we wouldn't buy one. I have nearly $200k invested in lotus vehicles.

It seems to me Lotus did not do enough testing on the Emira before selling it, and it's showing.

Which is odd because the Emira was delayed in the states for years while the folks in the UK were beta testing them.....

 

[VF Tuner]

Which is odd because the Emira was delayed in the states for years while the folks in the UK were beta testing them.....

I know what I am saying sounds harsh, but again I do love my emira.

 

[seriously]

The i4 was necessary to sell the emira in China and other Asian countries that tax by cylinder. I don’t think it was a bad move at all.

China is the largest auto market in the world and geely owns a controlling stake in Lotus. They have to be able to sell their cars there.

 

[DerTheDer]

I know what I am saying sounds harsh, but again I do love my emira.

I completely agreed with your post. I am saying that Lotus had years to beta test the Emira in the UK before they shipped them to America. It would appear they didnt do enough testing, even though the first batch of cars in the UK had issues in like 2023 or whenever they shipped, and some of those problems were still present in US cars.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I’m not trying to make excuses for the Emira, but for me personally outside some small issues has mostly been great. There isn’t another car I would rather have for 100k USD. With that said, the company fumbled its UK rollout with screwing over dealers and on top of that rushed production for the US market due to delays. Got completely blinded by US tariffs on Chinese EV early on. If you look at the product from launch during Covid to the known hybrid pivot, disastrous sales numbers across the board, it’s obvious they are in serious trouble.

Even with all of this, there is a route to save the company, IF parent Geely is willing to go down the path. Perhaps the most telling line is “strategic partnership”. There is a possibility that they are looking at another OEM to partner with on building hybrid Eletre for the us market that isn’t Geely owned. I would not rule out a partnership with a US OEM at this point. Remember Geely has the leverage in China to help US manufacturers with a partnership the other way. If I was Geely I would be looking for the help outside its own portfolio. Ford would be a nostalgic choice and given its F1 history with Lotus and Ford CEO Farley’s love for racing - it would be a fitting choice, albeit a long shot.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

The hell you mean?

The GT-R is now out of production, but was literally only built in Japan. There were no US Assembly plants, no Euro ones. Engines hand built by like 5 different dudes. Pretty explicitly only built in Japan.

BMW M3 Build pretty much exclusively in Munich. Now that they are building an EV M3 that will be done in Munich but they are talking about the next G50 cars being built in Dingolfing. Which is ALSO Germany."

Not mexico. Not phillipines. Not Portugal. What are you talking about?

Serious question, are you drunk?

I don’t think you’re even reading what I wrote or responding to it. Your response is so incoherent I feel like you might be quoting me but responding to someone else?

Just reread what I wrote it’s very clear.

I never even mentioned the GTR.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

Businesses tend to fail when they promote poor leadership, or let bad leadership stagnate. In this case I believe it is a large majority of the problem.

We tend to focus on the Emira (this is an Emira forum!). But Hethel and the Emira are really just a distraction in this situation.

The Chinese leadership (effectively Geely) have burned over a billion dollars because of a combination of poor strategy and bad luck:

1. They bet that the world was shifting to 100% EV very quickly and mapped out a 10-year pipeline of BEV vehicles
2. They were unrealistic in believing that the Lotus brand could immediately compete in the ultra-luxury segment
3. Their vehicle launch plans were smashed by the pandemic and the Ukraine war
4. The US (and other markets) introduced punitive tariffs for vehicles built in China.

Again, all the other stuff like poor customer service, mediocre dealers, and blistering paint is infuriating for those impacted, but it's not what has put Lotus in a precarious position and created doubts about whether the business even has a future.

 

[VF Tuner]

I think the Chinese were planning the same direction as most other manufacturers.
What no manufacturer could have predicted was Trump shaking up everything.

The world was shifting to EVs, but now Trump is trying to shift away from that, and america is one of Chinas main market.