Sketchy Experince on Offramp?

[luciddaydream]

Has anyone else noticed their car feeling a little tricky on off-ramps ?


I’ll be the first to admit I’m not the best driver in the world, but I’d put myself slightly above average...

I absolutely love this car, feel really connected to it, and have a lot of confidence driving it.

This isn’t meant as a criticism..if anything, I’m pretty sure this is more about me than the car...

But there’s one thing I’ve noticed: when I’m taking an off-ramp at a somewhat high (but not wild) speed, it sometimes feels like the car doesn’t settle into the turn the way I expect.


A couple of times, it’s felt a little closer to the edge than I’d like. Thankfully the brakes are excellent, so I’ve always been able to slow down and recover, but today’s experience honestly gave me a bit of a scare. I can’t tell if it’s sliding, understeering, or just something about the way I’m handling it. My best guess is that the g-forces push me sideways in the seat, which makes it harder to keep precise control of the steering and judge exactly where the front is pointing.


It all happens so fast that it’s tough to pinpoint. I’d be curious to see how it behaves in a controlled setting, like on a track. Anyone else run into this?

Thanks

 

[KAR120C]

If you’re able to apply the brakes in the turn you are fine. If the car was actually at the limits, applying the brakes would typically bring the tail around into an even more uncomfortable oversteer.

If you are still accelerating hard and you’re feeling understeer just reduce the throttle and the nose will tuck into line.

I don’t know what tires you have, but the Goodyears communicate quite well and give you a nice predictable feeling. With the windows down, they’ll also give you a clear audible feedback as it goes from roar to growl to squeal.

Also check pressures. I’ve found that 26/30 cold works great. The rears heat up faster and will give a 5lb difference when hot. That helps control the understeer.

 

[virtualmacho]

Your tires are probably not heated up. Find a patrol car a few miles before your exit and slip in front of it. Floor it, then brake check. Repeat until your exit comes up. Go.

 

[NJemira85]

May also be a factor of the differential pushing power to outer wheel, along with braking inner wheel. If you’re not used to that “yaw” impact, it can feel weird, partially bc it isn’t a direct result of the steering input necessarily

 

[luciddaydream]

Thanks guys, yeah I guess the main thing I'm saying is -- I feel confident with the car but not in this area. Would be cool to test it on a track and really get to know it.

 

[KAR120C]

Doing a track day is very helpful. You’ll learn how it’s going to behave in a relatively safe environment. These cars are sensitive to tire pressure and tire temps. On track I found it understeered early in my first session, then got pretty neutral as they heated then went back to understeer.

I mucked around with pressures, then went to max negative front camber. Next time I went to track it was much better. And definitely better on the backroads.

 

[KAR120C]

Oh and if you do a track day, run a few laps to get the feel then disable the nannies. So much better when they aren’t intrusive. Not recommended turning them completely off on backroads.

 

[me73]

Can you explain in any more detail what you're doing and feeling? Do you have any other cars to compare to on the same onramp? Do you have experience in mid engine cars? What is the road surface like? What's the camber of the on ramp?

 

[luciddaydream]

Can you explain in any more detail what you're doing and feeling? Do you have any other cars to compare to on the same onramp? Do you have experience in mid engine cars? What is the road surface like? What's the camber of the on ramp?

Can you explain in any more detail what you're doing and feeling?

Just taking an offramp at a fast speed but not super-fast speed. Not sure the specific MPH. But a speed that I thought the car could handle, but it didn't seem to be able to. Car just wouldn't handle the turn. Possibly my fault.

Do you have any other cars to compare to on the same onramp?

I have had posrches, and recently a 992 with rear steering and Im sure could've handled it.. but the lotus seems tobe able to handle turns better in city streets, etc. So its tough to say.

Do you have experience in mid engine cars?

No, just 911's but they are more rear engine.

What is the road surface like? What's the camber of the on ramp?

Just a regular highway road. Not sure on camber.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Do you have sport or touring? I had the touring then moved to sport and the handling was really a big leap.

 

[luciddaydream]

I have sport, but with the Goodyears.

 

[me73]

Can you explain in any more detail what you're doing and feeling?

Just taking an offramp at a fast speed but not super-fast speed. Not sure the specific MPH. But a speed that I thought the car could handle, but it didn't seem to be able to. Car just wouldn't handle the turn. Possibly my fault.

Do you have any other cars to compare to on the same onramp?

I have had posrches, and recently a 992 with rear steering and Im sure could've handled it.. but the lotus seems tobe able to handle turns better in city streets, etc. So its tough to say.

Do you have experience in mid engine cars?

No, just 911's but they are more rear engine.

What is the road surface like? What's the camber of the on ramp?

Just a regular highway road. Not sure on camber.

I guess I'm looking for more detail on what you mean by "handle it". Was it understeering, oversteering, on the way in, on the way out, skipping over bumps?

 

[luciddaydream]

I guess I'm looking for more detail on what you mean by "handle it". Was it understeering, oversteering, on the way in, on the way out, skipping over bumps?

It was going into a right turn off a highway
I thought it would handle the sharp turn, but I almost drove off the road.
It wasn't able to handle the sharp turn.
So an understeer.

No bumps. Regular highway road.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

I have sport, but with the Goodyears.

Try better tires, they make a world of difference.

 

[Lotus64]

Not sure if it's the same sensation you're describing, but I've unexpectedly felt some twitchiness in the back end of Emira at moderate speeds on two occasions. Both instances were at constant throttle. Sports w/ cup 2s.

The first time was over a major freeway expansion joint, during a lane shift, in a construction zone, around 50F and the second time was on a seemingly smooth on-ramp, mid corner.

The first time felt like the surface change may have tugged the car, almost like bump steer but not exactly. The second time didn't feel like bump steer as all 4 tires maintained full contact with the road surface.

In those steady state conditions, I felt the rear end move independently from the front, almost like the beginning of oversteer. Just a brief moment of feeling the front and rear begin to travel in different directions before snapping into unison. The rear tires didn't actually lose traction but it felt like they could start to in those brief instances.

That level of communication was very unexpected, especially in a straight line and mid corner, as opposed to entry or exit. My steering inputs were likely a factor but they weren't abrupt and I felt like the Emira's responses were not what I anticipated. I'm accustomed to oversteer but haven't felt that sensation in any other vehicles, including other mid / rear engined cars like the 911.

Kind of reminds me of the first time I drove the Emira and the steering was communicating shocking amounts of road texture. The amount of feedback and sensations that the Emira delivers to the driver is humbling.

 

[me73]

It was going into a right turn off a highway
I thought it would handle the sharp turn, but I almost drove off the road.
It wasn't able to handle the sharp turn.
So an understeer.

No bumps. Regular highway road.

It sounds like a little more management of weight transfer would be in order. These cars have good turn-in but they are rear weight biased. Porsches have more safety nets in place to correct for mistakes and keep the car on the road than this car does so the 911 may be looking out for you when you do a similar maneuver. Have you spent any time on track? It's a great way to get to know your car and learn valuable driving techniques.

 

[KAR120C]

Now that I understand you were in a sharp turn, @me73 gave good advice. As soon as you feel the front starting to wash out you need to ease back on the throttle to tuck the nose back in. Using the 5lb hot F/R temp difference will also help rotate the car as you transfer the weight forward and engine brake the rear tires.

Like all Lotus cars, once you figure out how it wants to drive, you can make it dance. But you have to adapt to it, not the other way around.

 

[mr.suntorytime]

It was going into a right turn off a highway
I thought it would handle the sharp turn, but I almost drove off the road.
It wasn't able to handle the sharp turn.
So an understeer.

No bumps. Regular highway road.

Go do a track day or auto cross. Its a very valuable exercise to understand your cars unique control parameters.

The front end is very light, i find that i have to tap the brakes while slightly turning (trail braking) depending on the corner scenario to pitch the nose down and into the right direction for the front tires to load up properly.

This is an advance technique you would be best trying on closed corse as it can have you and your car flying sideways off the road

 

[KAR120C]

Trail braking can be your friend or your downfall, especially with the all the weight in the rear. When I instruct, I only have novices trail brake for the turn-in and then use the throttle for any subsequent weight transfer.

One thing you'll find very helpful on road and track is to make sure you are in the right gear for turns. Get in a lower gear before entering the turn. This will allow you to use your throttle with greater effectiveness to balance the car by using it's natural engine braking. 1) You have greater engine braking at a higher RPM so you can more easily transfer weight forward as needed 2) that braking is ONLY on the rear wheels so all your front grip can be used for turning. That combination will give you a much better rotation in the corner. Just be ready to apply some throttle to catch the rear if it over-rotates. Once you get the feel for this (on-track) you can apply it on the street and the Emira will really move on the twisties!

 

[GetawayDriving]

Have you ever had any driver training?

Everyone saying go to an autocross or track, and that's good advice, but much more helpful with instruction. I've had several Emira on track in full anger and the limits of this car are so much higher than mine as a driver, and I've had quite a bit of track instruction over the years (including on tracks like Nurburgring, Portimao, Spa, Hethel). So I suspect there's something going on with your inputs, inexperience on when to apply those inputs, managing weight transfer, etc. Mid-engined cars are snappy by nature, though the Emira seems less so than most other Lotus given the wider track, a bit of passive aero and a ton of tire. Plus the fact that the factory does lean to understeer by default and a lot of owners prefer to dial that out with more aggressive alignments (which require adjustable arms), but honestly you shouldn't be experiencing understeer like that on an off-ramp. The car's limits are much higher than road-spirited speed.