Lotus Boss Quits

[Eagle7]

The article didn’t quite go there, but I’ll call it now: there will be no Type 135.

Depends on why it's delayed. If it's because of problems with the car and/or meeting it's target goals, then the delay is worrying. If it's because they realize they'd be stupid to shut down the Emira just to build the Type 135, and decided to delay it to get the return on their investment out of the Emira before switching, that's another story.

Johnstone was the one who declared the Emira would be discontinued in 2028, and I find it interesting that all of a sudden he's leaving, and the Type 135 is "delayed". Looks like there may be some kind of struggle going on inside the company. Hopefully it turns out well.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I hear ya.... The leadership is either leaving or not inspiring any confidence.

As far as Type 135... I think it will come out. 2028-2030 release. I personally believe that battery technology (solid state) is about to be introduced within the next 2-3 years. This will make today's EV's look like blackberry's. I think it is a very good idea to postpone type 135 until the new battery tech get's there and keep pumping out Emira's, which actually sell. The more they make the better it will be for all of us owners! Keep them going!

 

[JimH]

Depends on why it's delayed. If it's because of problems with the car and/or meeting it's target goals, then the delay is worrying. If it's because they realize they'd be stupid to shut down the Emira just to build the Type 135, and decided to delay it to get the return on their investment out of the Emira before switching, that's another story.

Johnstone was the one who declared the Emira would be discontinued in 2028, and I find it interesting that all of a sudden he's leaving, and the Type 135 is "delayed". Looks like there may be some kind of struggle going on inside the company. Hopefully it turns out well.

Probably not the only reason, but Lotus were supposed to be building three new factory units at Hethel - one of which was to be the Type 135 assembly line, and the others a logistics warehouse and staff building - but there has been a bureaucratic delay (sound familiar?) in the granting of planning permission to start the builds....

2023/2037 | Hybrid Application: 1) Outline planning application (including access and scale) for the development of modern facilities to support Lotus' production requirements. Proposals include new manufacturing (B2), production (B2

info.southnorfolkandbroadland.gov.uk

 

[ameeriklane]

@Eagle7 - It is possible that Carr and the Emira design team is just moving locations. My guess is that the new Coventry studio is much more upgraded and using better, newer technology and updating Hethel would just cost more money. Converging the two units is a good idea, as long as the majority of the design teams stay intact. I see this as more as "we built all this new stuff at Coventry, come work over here and use it" - more so than firing Carr and associates.

It's a good question. The Hethel facilities (I've visited) are out in the countryside. You have to drive down these narrow, shoulderless roads to get there -- I have no idea how the trucks going to and from the factory navigate it. They are located there because it's the site of an old WWII-era airbase so it came with a runway to use as a test track, and the hangars could be easily converted to a factory. They chose that part of England because there was a government scheme to encourage business (and thus job creation) in certain regions of England.

But that was all decades ago. If you need to find great design talent, perhaps Coventry is a better place in terms of attracting talent, being a bigger metropolitan area generally, and the Lotus design center there isn't out in the countryside.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

1. Coventry (LTCC) is a state of the art design centre that was opened in 2019. It has four full studios and over 100 designers, engineers and modellers. It makes sense for Lotus to move to one consolidated design department instead of two.

2. The TYP 135 conceptual design will be largely finalised by now so it could be a decade before the tiny Hethel-based team needs to design a new sports car. There's not much point having them sitting in Hethel twiddling their thumbs.

3. There are also the usual corporate politics at play. Peter Horbury was Vice President of Design with Russell Carr (Hethel studio) and Ben Payne (LTCC studio) reporting to him. Peter sadly died in mid-2023. Ben was then promoted to Vice President of Design. It's no surprise to anyone who has watched Game of Thrones that Ben now plans to fold the Hethel team into his broader group.

 

[digilotus]

The article didn’t quite go there, but I’ll call it now: there will be no Type 135.

But Type 136 is about to enter production in Italy next month.

 

[digilotus]

But Type 136 is about to enter production in Italy next month.

I wasn't joking. Type 136 FE is available to order from Lotus now: https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/type-136

 

[Porter]

I wasn't joking. Type 136 FE is available to order from Lotus now: https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/type-136

This is such an absurd distraction. I get that it's a marketing exercise, but they are apparently devoting actual engineering resources to it.

I'm a bike guy, so I really find it interesting on an academic level, but as an Emira customer watching the company fail to address basic challenges like, "is our car sufficiently weather-resistant for road use," it makes me want to just scream wordlessly at the upper management at Lotus HQ.

 

[Nova]

This is such an absurd distraction. I get that it's a marketing exercise, but they are apparently devoting actual engineering resources to it.

I'm a bike guy, so I really find it interesting on an academic level, but as an Emira customer watching the company fail to address basic challenges like, "is our car sufficiently weather-resistant for road use," it makes me want to just scream wordlessly at the upper management at Lotus HQ.

Yea, the wire loom failure is a multi point failure. The engineering failed, design reviews failed, prototyping failed, weather testing failed, and after production started and the issue started occurring, they failed to immediately implement some type of short term correction even as they waited for the new cover to be made.

 

[Drambeenie]

Think Lotus need to follow

Stellantis is open to putting a gas engine in its EVs to meet demand - Autoblog

Stellantis builds many of its cars on multi-energy platforms, so it can turn an EV into a gasoline-powered model with relative ease if needed.

www.autoblog.com

 

[Fasttoys]

Yea, the wire loom failure is a multi point failure. The engineering failed, design reviews failed, prototyping failed, weather testing failed, and after production started and the issue started occurring, they failed to immediately implement some type of short term correction even as they waited for the new cover to be made.

My concern is that the Emira has been out for a while and in very wet climates for years. It's manufactured in a very damp environment too, I am so complex about how this can happen. Many in the USA are now getting their cars and some experiencing these issues. I laugh when I read the post I will be careful when I am in the car and never drive it in the rain, seems very funny to me. I was hoping Lotus would have turned a corner when it comes to communications. If you watch this video on the Emira I feel they are spot on. My 2011 Evora was pretty much problem-free.

 

[lynchy73]

My concern is that the Emira has been out for a while and in very wet climates for years. It's manufactured in a very damp environment too, I am so complex about how this can happen. Many in the USA are now getting their cars and some experiencing these issues. I laugh when I read the post I will be careful when I am in the car and never drive it in the rain, seems very funny to me. I was hoping Lotus would have turned a corner when it comes to communications. If you watch this video on the Emira I feel they are spot on. My 2011 Evora was pretty much problem-free.

What’s so funny about leaving your weekend/fun car at home on wet days?

 

[Porter]

What’s so funny about leaving your weekend/fun car at home on wet days?

Not sure if you're missing his sarcasm, or if I'm missing yours... 🤔

 

[lynchy73]

Not sure if you're missing his sarcasm, or if I'm missing yours... 🤔

Yeah, I missed the sarcasm. A Direct statement isn’t sarcasm. Regardless of whether there are question marks around water ingress issues on the Emira or not, this is a weekend fun car for me, so it stays at home if it’s wet. If I get caught out or am doing a trip where it’s raining, so be it, but I’m avoiding it.

I’ve had zero issues on my I4, and I qualify that by sharing that I don’t drive it on rainy days, and additionally I follow the suggestion from Lotus to avoid high pressure water into inlets. This I feel is relevant information to share.

Others are free to do whatever they like with their Emira (free of any smart arse comments from me), just like I can do whatever I like

 

[Nick in Sydney]

The article didn’t quite go there, but I’ll call it now: there will be no Type 135.

Delaying the 100% BEV Type 135 and instead launching a hybrid version of the Emira would actually be a pretty smart strategy for Lotus.

 

[ADC]

Yeah, I missed the sarcasm. A Direct statement isn’t sarcasm. Regardless of whether there are question marks around water ingress issues on the Emira or not, this is a weekend fun car for me, so it stays at home if it’s wet. If I get caught out or am doing a trip where it’s raining, so be it, but I’m avoiding it.

I’ve had zero issues on my I4, and I qualify that by sharing that I don’t drive it on rainy days, and additionally I follow the suggestion from Lotus to avoid high pressure water into inlets. This I feel is relevant information to share.

Others are free to do whatever they like with their Emira (free of any smart arse comments from me), just like I can do whatever I like

It is nice that many are not having problems, and your usage pattern sounds perfectly cromulent to me, but surely you have to admit that, on the face of it, it is faintly absurd for owners of any modern car to have to even think about whether simply getting the thing wet (setting aside the issue of high pressure blasts into intakes) will cause it to break.

Like others, it bugs me that Lotus don't really give the outward impression they're methodically getting a handle on things like this (or if they are, they are just bad at communicating it in a way that instils confidence), and just continue ploughing forward according to The Grand Electrification Plan ™️

 

[lynchy73]

It is nice that many are not having problems, and your usage pattern sounds perfectly cromulent to me, but surely you have to admit that, on the face of it, it is faintly absurd for owners of any modern car to have to even think about whether simply getting the thing wet (setting aside the issue of high pressure blasts into intakes) will cause it to break.

Like others, it bugs me that Lotus don't really give the outward impression they're methodically getting a handle on things like this (or if they are, they are just bad at communicating it in a way that instils confidence), and just continue ploughing forward according to The Grand Electrification Plan ™️

Of course it’s far from ideal that it’s a thing (water ingress). However, I’m not entirely convinced water ingress is an issue, or if it’s more of an issue on 1 version or another…. The more information people share, the better IMO.

Agreed, I think Lotus should hang onto ICE a bit longer.

 

[bpleroy]

Geely bought Lotus for one primary reason - Brand recognition. Geely thought they could leverage the name and reputation of a company with a storied F1 history and niche sports car market and turn it into mass market auto manufacturer.

Its pretty clear that Geely wanted to RAPIDLY morph Lotus, a boutique automaker, into a global brand and sell 100K+ vehicles annually. To be competitive in a crowded market of high end ICE and EV producers, Geely failed on several fronts. First they failed to make the required investments in infrastructure. No one except for niche sports car buyers is going to tolerate not having a dealership nearby. Secondly they forgot the crawl, walk, run principles of scalable manufacturing. While Geely can likely PRODUCE cars in volume, they don't have the customer base (demand) to purchase those volumes.

Fundamentally Geely (Lotus) has a demand problem. The Emira's purpose was to reinvigorate the brand, energize Lotus loyalists and capture new market share from sports car buyers. The Emira certainly did this and by that measure has been successful. The disconnect has been with the exponential increase of interest in Lotus has not translated into increase desirably for the follow on vehicle offerings. In fact. Geely / Lotus have treated their Emira customer base so poorly it has had a strategic negative impact on brand recognition and essentially stunted the growth of Lotus products in the mainstream SUV marketplace.

Until Geely & Lotus build out dealer and service infrastructure as well as do a better job of treating their existing customers better, I see Lotus' growth as an uphill battle with stiff headwinds.

If Lotus and Geely want to succeed, two things need to happen Immediately. First, Geely needs to make all Volvo dealers, Lotus service centers. They'd get instant infrastructure and mitigate buyer's support concerns. Next, anyone and everyone who has or is in the process of purchasing an Emira, needs to be able to access robust, comprehensive customer service. If Lotus/Geely don't do something different soon, this branding expansion experiment will fizzle and maybe fail.

I fully agree with your analysis. Bu the way Lotus treat their “dealers”, by rebranding them as “agents” where you can pick up your car ordered online. whilst again demanding to refurbish their premises for hundreds of thousands of euros, dollars, pounds, is an absolute scandal. If you want exquisite client services, you ought to start with how you treat your dealers. Mine is Thierry Verhiest in Oostende, Belgium. The best dealer I have ever had. Also, do way with all the cheap marketing stuff like the decision to to change the Lotus badge from yellow on green to yellow on black because it looks more modern. This is stupid crap which disrespects the brands legacy. And lastly, as a previous Elise and Evora S and current Emira V6 driver, I recently drove the Eletre. Really good car, but I struggle finding anything of the typical Lotus values of light weight, superlative steering and exquisite suspension and handling. Just too clinical, too big and doesn’t particularly handle well. Also, Lotus should have asked Russell Carr to design it rather than someone who has stepped into a design future devoid of any historical link. Still, my Emira V6 auto is a superlative car, the best money can buy. I love Lotus!

 

[@Life411]

All, just wanted to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread and appreciate all the thoughtful comments. The last few comments were about the water issues. Funny to me because I had to drive my Elise Sunday with the soft top on as it was raining. When I came back out to the car after church, there was a good bit of water inside on the driver's side sill. So I guess Lotus is just trying to make sure the Emira is an authentic Lotus and carrying this forward as a heritage element.

Regarding the future of ICE and EV, I think only time will tell, but it does seem clear to me that the crowd pushing "EV today" were unrealistically premature given the state of the cost, technology, infrastructure and public appetite and car manufacturers who jumped on that bandwagon early were primarily virtue signaling. As often happens, I doubt that will pay off for them financially, but time will tell. I've owned a Tesla Model S and it was a great experience, but a nice exhaust sound is a huge part of what I enjoy about driving cars like the Elise and Emira. Coupled with my love for manual shifting! It's also nice to know in the Elise I'm in a car that won't stop functioning because of a minor battery current fluctuation and I'm not being tracked and monitored in everything I do.

Regarding the future of Lotus, I was hopeful with the acquisition by Geely and rollout of the Emira, but I'm not so sure anymore. In business I worked in an industry with frequent mergers and acquisitions. I was fortunate enough to work with one C-level "dream team" that would come in and turn these companies around in 3-5 years. They were truly great to work for and had an amazing track record until the current company. They have been bogged down there for many years with no end in sight. They brought me in to work with them there too before I retired, so I got to see it firsthand. The problem IMO appears to be that company's culture which every employee contributes to. Every company presented cultural challenges they needed to overcome, but they haven't been able to at this latest company for some reason. I fear that is the problem with Lotus. To quote a friend "Lotus designs and builds great cars, but everything else not so much." But I'm rooting for them! I'm about to have two Loti in my garage.