I placed my deposit with Park Place in March of 2022 (after changing from Gator to be more Local). Cancelled in May of 2023 and got my $5k back no questions asked. I knew, however, once I put down the extra $10k for the order, it would be non-refundable. Did they not explain that to you?
I'm out - the cancellations thread
- Thread starter boozyjay
- Start date
boisecrawfords
Emira Fan
Yes they did, the issue was that they called me mid-October and said I needed to finalize my i4 order within the next 48 hrs for me to get the February/March delivery slot, otherwise I would lose it. I wired them the funds (because they said they couldn't wait two days for a paper check), then waited. I then saw the announcement on here that i4s were pushed out until 2025. I called them back and the GM wouldn't take my call, said he could only talk via email. I advised him that I was no longer interested and that I paid the extra $10k and finalized the order b/c of the early spring delivery. Now that it was pushed out for almost a year I was no longer interested. He said it didn't matter because there was nothing in the Park Place contract stating that delays were allowable reasons for order cancellation. Ultimately my fault because I never thought that a company would not allow cancellation if the terms of the order changed. I also sent an email to the owner and the GM, advising of my situation and asking for some justification for their policy, even though Lotus would allow the order to be cancelled (personally verified). Management never even replied to the email. So probably less of the sales manager's fault and more of the arrogance of senior management.
Oh that's awful!! I really feel for you!
What state is Park Place in?
Washington
EyeFour Eemeerah!
Emira Fan
Lotus appear to be $cumb@g$. This is the exact route with me, except the date and the state. Only difference… I told em go scratch. I feel for all that got/are getting screwed. The rollout in the U.S. is going on now, and they are nailing their own coffin shut. Nice looking car. Issues to fix, but this approach to “customer service” will turn many off.
Lotustoronto
Emira Addict
You are right, they are terrible at CS. In the end they only need 5K suckers per year to buy into the Lotus idea. In terms of cars, it is a small amount. I just hope they actively try in the future and perhaps the EV's will force dealers and Lotus in general to step it up. The sports cars might have a chance with low production in having sub par CS but the EV SUV customer that are more mass market will not stand for this and Lotus will quickly crumble.
Nick in Sydney
Emira Fiend
But isn't everything you're describing here the dealer, not Lotus Cars? The problem with the US dealership model is that the manufacturer has their hands completely tied . . . the dealers have massive legally protected power so they can get away with this stuff.
In the state of California car dealers can't keep a deposit on a product that is not delivered. I would look into the law of that state. This is a product they can easily sell at or above MSRP and it’s not a strange unique special order, I say F them play hardball.
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This!
Also, your deposit was predicated on a Feb/March delivery. You had to wire funds to ensure you got this slot. Even if orally stated, this was a condition of your deposit and should be considered part of your contract by intent. And now, they broke the contract. The dealer's "policy" does not trump law.
I would have an attorney send a letter, and not only asking for your money back but interest as well (probably won't get it but need to go on the offensive). Not trying to be smug but these guys don't sound that smart. Show them that you believe you have options in getting your money back, because you do.
Lastly, if you have any written communication stating that you needed to send your deposit ASAP in order to secure a Feb/March delivery I would think this could be a slam-dunk in your favor.
I hate these kinds of stories. I had a wonderful dealer experience, so hearing about people being held captive after years of broken promises makes my blood boil.
Washington has no such consumer protection laws for deposits.
General contract law can still apply. I'm no attorney, but it seems like fraud may have been committed with the "secure the last spot now for Spring delivery!" followed by "just kidding". The fact they wouldn't discuss the situation after it was revealed deliveries would be delayed by a year should really raise eyebrows in a court. And if they knew of even potential delays prior to accepting the deposit they would be dead in the water.
I would attack from all angles, and I bet a letter from an attorney stating you are looking into your rights will resolve the situation.
Bellevue, Washington.
When you spec a build, the deposit is no longer refundable, but I hadn't heard that you had to wait till 2025 for an i4.
I am pretty up on the waitlist for an Emira (I put in my deposit more than two years ago) and could likely get a car this year, but my circumstances have changed in and I'm having second thoughts. Hate to ask the obvious, but have people sold their slots before? Just curious.
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It just sounds strange to me, being so high on the waitlist I am not sure about your incentive for a new buyer. If a sports car is in high demand 99% of the time the dealer gives the deposit back and sells the car to make ADM which is over MRSP. Most dealers won't allow you to sell the spot. This causes extra complexity since nothing is guaranteed about getting a car unless you have an actual build allocation that goes against the dealer/Lotus. If they let you sell the spot I still think they would rather sell it their selves instead of moving another person in to get it which they can easily find.
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EyeFour Eemeerah!
Emira Fan
Not i4.
Maybe some people don't realize that in the U.S. you don't buy from the manufacturer, you buy from the dealer. When you place an order with a dealer, they have to commit to that by ordering it from the manufacturer. The manufacturer then commits to ordering all the pieces necessary to build your car, and paying for everything (including labor) right up to and including shipping it to the dealer. They don't get paid by the dealer until they deliver the car to them. Once that happens, the dealer has to pay the manufacturer, and now has to collect the full amount from you, because they've already paid for the car.
The dealer can't just cancel your order because you want them to. They're on the hook for the car you ordered. If you don't pay for whatever reason, now they have to try and find a buyer. If you ordered a car with unusual options, or an unusual color combo, it may be very difficult for them to sell it, which is why they have the contracts about non-refundable deposits on a special order. If they can sell the car reasonably quickly, they usually won't come after you because lawsuits also cost money. Keeping the deposit after you bailed on them is considered good enough to cover their expenses to sell your car. However if they have difficulty selling the car you ordered, they have every legal right to come after you for the money. Read contracts carefully before you sign, and keep a paper trail of communications (which is what the GM was doing at Park Place when he said he would only communicate via email in this one case).
They also don't want to start trying to cancel orders they already placed with the manufacturer, because the manufacturer may just stop taking orders from them, and now they can't get any cars to sell. Cancellations cost the manufacturer too.
In the case of a dealer having to notify you of a delay in estimated delivery due to delays from the manufacturer, that's not the dealer's fault or anything they did or have control over, so taking them to court is just going to be a waste of time and money. Unless there was a stipulation in the contract that the car had to be delivered by a specific time, there's no grounds for a legal action. It would have to be something dealer-specific to have a basis for taking them to court. In this case, with a car model that hasn't even been produced and certified for the U.S. yet, it's even more unlikely you'd have a case.
The dealer can't just cancel your order because you want them to. They're on the hook for the car you ordered. If you don't pay for whatever reason, now they have to try and find a buyer. If you ordered a car with unusual options, or an unusual color combo, it may be very difficult for them to sell it, which is why they have the contracts about non-refundable deposits on a special order. If they can sell the car reasonably quickly, they usually won't come after you because lawsuits also cost money. Keeping the deposit after you bailed on them is considered good enough to cover their expenses to sell your car. However if they have difficulty selling the car you ordered, they have every legal right to come after you for the money. Read contracts carefully before you sign, and keep a paper trail of communications (which is what the GM was doing at Park Place when he said he would only communicate via email in this one case).
They also don't want to start trying to cancel orders they already placed with the manufacturer, because the manufacturer may just stop taking orders from them, and now they can't get any cars to sell. Cancellations cost the manufacturer too.
In the case of a dealer having to notify you of a delay in estimated delivery due to delays from the manufacturer, that's not the dealer's fault or anything they did or have control over, so taking them to court is just going to be a waste of time and money. Unless there was a stipulation in the contract that the car had to be delivered by a specific time, there's no grounds for a legal action. It would have to be something dealer-specific to have a basis for taking them to court. In this case, with a car model that hasn't even been produced and certified for the U.S. yet, it's even more unlikely you'd have a case.
boisecrawfords
Emira Fan
Lotus advised me directly that I could cancel and that I just needed to talk to Park Place. Park Place said no.
Chatted with an attorney but will cost about $10k to do anything, other than just send a letter, which he said I'm sure isn't the first time they've done this to someone so they will just ignore it. At this point just going to wait a year, get the car, then sell it. Have lost a solid five figures in the market over the past two weeks so may be better that they have the money.
All good points - for a real car. The one in question happens to be vaporware though.
I totally disagree here. If I’m told I better wire my money now if I want a car by Spring and then a week later it’s pushed out a year I call that a breach of contract. Verbal commitments matter in a court of law. Intent matters in a court of law. The law does apply reasonableness in deciding these matters. And it was reasonable for the buyer to expect his car within a reasonable time from when promised. I would argue a year (and likely longer) is NOT reasonable. Further, to be rushed to wire money in order to secure said production spot? I promise you these facts matter.
And with regards to the dealer model. Yes, they are at the mercy of the manufacturers. That’s the risk they assumed in being in this business and accepting deposits. Are we to expect that they should operate in a way no other business does in not having potential risk or downside? If I make a calculated gamble at work we lose money. It’s part of doing business.
And lastly, why do they have to be such dicks about this? Worried “if” they have to take delivery as a lot vehicle they can’t sell it? Shows a lot of faith in their product.
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