RWD vs AWD

[Speedy Emira]

Just seeing if any of you have come from either a FWD or AWD car and how you have found the change?
I came from AWD and most of the time I haven’t noticed a big difference except in the wet. Today the roads are damp and I came off a roundabout onto a country lane going faster than average but no where near stupid quick. I went from going right around the roundabout to a left hand bend up a hill and the back lost grip requiring some corrective steering and a scary moment before getting back on the correct line. I’m still getting used to the car but it made me realise driving in wet or when the tyres are not fully warm needs a bit more caution than I’m used to. I think the last time I owned a RWD car is in the late 90s.

 

[Nick Sticks]

Just seeing if any of you have come from either a FWD or AWD car and how you have found the change?
I came from AWD and most of the time I haven’t noticed a big difference except in the wet. Today the roads are damp and I came off a roundabout onto a country lane going faster than average but no where near stupid quick. I went from going right around the roundabout to a left hand bend up a hill and the back lost grip requiring some corrective steering and a scary moment before getting back on the correct line. I’m still getting used to the car but it made me realise driving in wet or when the tyres are not fully warm needs a bit more caution than I’m used to. I think the last time I owned a RWD car is in the late 90s.

What driving mode were you in?
Tour or Sport?

 

[Pugwash]

It’s mid engine which makes quite a difference compared to conventional front engined cars. Many a new Elise owner found lifting in a bend resulted in the rear going for a walk. The Emira is no different.

 

[Speedy Emira]

What driving mode were you in?
Tour or Sport?

Sport
I did see if you go in track it switches off the driver aids.

 

[Nick Sticks]

Sport
I did see if you go in track it switches off the driver aids.

Yes, Sport as well but not as much:
The manual says that Sport mode, (along with other things) has the following effect:
A reduction in ESC settings allow for increased power-induced wheel slippage thresholds and no throttle reduction on understeer.

 

[seriously]

Yes. With RWD I take normal driving lines and mind the throttle when coming out of a turn. In AWD I just do whatever the hell I want and give it the beans and the suspension magic sorts it all out. To drive AWD fast on a track I think you have to overdrive it a bit, the opposite is true for RWD.

As far as dynamics go I feel that I’m more in control in RWD where you can feel the balance and grip shifting. In AWD I feel more like I’m hanging on as the car is doing more work to keep you from not spinning out.

I actually think both are fun.

 

[Superman]

My first ever track day car was a 1995 Toyota MR2. Whilst that was nowhere near as powerful as the Emira, it was mid-engined and RWD, and it taught me a LOT about driving dynamics, driving on the limit and just how dramatic things can get when you nudge over the limit.

It is due to all of the things I learnt (and mistakes I made) driving that at 10/10ths (and sometimes beyond!) on the track that I NEVER go anywhere near that level of commitment on the road.

I also believe it made me a much better driver, much more conscious and respectful of the machine around me and the things that can so easily upset a car's composure and mechanical grip (especially on unpredictable roads).

My current track car is a Mazda RX-8, much better balanced than the MR2, still RWD, but 50-50 weight distribution and a lot easier to play with the balance at the edge of grip.

I have had a few high-power AWD road cars, and they do tend to be much more predictable when pushing hard, but only in certain scenarios (applying acceleration out of corners being a prime example), but they are certainly not immune to 'inappropriate' driver inputs.

I will certainly be treating the Emira with respect on the road, whilst still enjoying it. The mid-engined RWD format is fun, but does have some dynamic 'quirks' that others do not.

 

[seriously]

I love that generation of MR2. No wonder the emira interests you.

Btw, you certainly still have to drive appropriately with AWD, but I have to say... Having driven an S4 Quattro and Macan Turbo - I could do things in corners unimaginable in an MR2. It felt like cheating. Maybe I’m being a bit dramatic but it is incredible and different feeling. Can you imagine driving a GTR at the limit? Must be nuts.

 

[Speedy Emira]

I love that generation of MR2. No wonder the emira interests you.

Btw, you certainly still have to drive appropriately with AWD, but I have to say... Having driven an S4 Quattro and Macan Turbo - I could do things in corners unimaginable in an MR2. It felt like cheating. Maybe I’m being a bit dramatic but it is incredible and different feeling. Can you imagine driving a GTR at the limit? Must be nuts.

I totally agree with you Seriously after coming from an RS3 with tons of suspension upgrades. The downside for me was the total lack of feeling compared to the Emira.
I swapped out the diff for a Wavetrack diff which is the best aftermarket diff I’ve ever tried. Sadly they don’t make them for the Lotus but I see there are other ones available.

 

[PJS]

Just seeing if any of you have come from either a FWD or AWD car and how you have found the change?
I came from AWD and most of the time I haven’t noticed a big difference except in the wet. Today the roads are damp and I came off a roundabout onto a country lane going faster than average but no where near stupid quick. I went from going right around the roundabout to a left hand bend up a hill and the back lost grip requiring some corrective steering and a scary moment before getting back on the correct line. I’m still getting used to the car but it made me realise driving in wet or when the tyres are not fully warm needs a bit more caution than I’m used to. I think the last time I owned a RWD car is in the late 90s.

Had an AWD M5 and I8 before, both very capable in the damp/wet. The Emira needs, lets say, a more delicate touch, or in my case, more skill/care. I've had a similar code brown moment in the Emira quite recently! At least when you bury the throttle the power comes in gradually

 

[Speedy Emira]

Had an AWD M5 and I8 before, both very capable in the damp/wet. The Emira needs, lets say, a more delicate touch, or in my case, more skill/care. I've had a similar code brown moment in the Emira quite recently! At least when you bury the throttle the power comes in gradually

Image what it would be like with between 550 and 600hp?
You would certainly have to be respectful of the power delivery. I imagine the twin turbo 800hp engine JUBU make would be a death trap on the road.

 

[Speedy Emira]

For those of you that have clocked up some decent miles I’d be interested in your views on grip compared to other cars.
I have no previous experience driving a RWD car with this power to weight ratio or better so I’ve nothing to compare it to other than test drives which don’t give you an accurate long term data.
I’m particularly interested if when you are driving a bit spirited but no going mad do you find it continually need steering corrections from the rear end braking traction?
Also do you find issues when lifting off throttle to much the back end loses grip putting you into a slide?

Recently I was speaking to RS6 owner who said he’d lover an Rmira due to the looks but thought he wasn’t a good enough driver to own a RWD car that needs far more skill to stay on the road at speed. I can’t believe that is true but would like to hear others views.

 

[seriously]

For those of you that have clocked up some decent miles I’d be interested in your views on grip compared to other cars.
I have no previous experience driving a RWD car with this power to weight ratio or better so I’ve nothing to compare it to other than test drives which don’t give you an accurate long term data.
I’m particularly interested if when you are driving a bit spirited but no going mad do you find it continually need steering corrections from the rear end braking traction?
Also do you find issues when lifting off throttle to much the back end loses grip putting you into a slide?

Recently I was speaking to RS6 owner who said he’d lover an Rmira due to the looks but thought he wasn’t a good enough driver to own a RWD car that needs far more skill to stay on the road at speed. I can’t believe that is true but would like to hear others views.

With this much power (not that it’s that much) you can’t mash the gas pedal in turns. Some cars have so much more grip than power (low HP cars) that you can be very liberal with gas inputs and never upset the car. Even if you lose grip it’s easy to correct. With higher HP RWD cars like newer M4s is easy to lose grip on the rear and harder to correct because you probably overshot by a lot- think mustangs cars and coffee videos. That said all these modern cars including the emira have traction control that will cut power so you don’t overdo it. Modern traction control makes many higher HP cars much safer for the average driver. Emira will be the same. Once you turn traction control all the way off you need to learn the limits of the car and not overdo it on power. You should be fine.

 

[Gadzooks]

Also worth pointing out that with a mid engined car (and especially one with the weight balance to the rear like the Emira) you need to trail brake into the apex (if you are going quickly) in order to keep the nose hooked up. You can get on the power pretty early due to the rear weight balance but, as has been said above, you need to feed in the power and at the same time unwind the steering lock. The Emira rewards smooth inputs and it is something that takes a bit of practice To drive quickly and safely.

 

[seriously]

How do you think about trail braking technique? It’s not something I have practiced and am a bit paranoid about because I’m so focused on the braking in a straight line thing.

 

[Subw00er]

How do you think about trail braking technique? It’s not something I have practiced and am a bit paranoid about because I’m so focused on the braking in a straight line thing.

Its something that comes naturally as you progress. I'd make sure you have heel-toe sort of nailed first. Also remember the bias on this car is 63% rear, so its going to come around a little faster than some others with a 50/50 split. That's why to slide this car, I heard a professional driver say that you brake into the corner, let the rear come around a bit, and accelerate to get grip backwards again and hold the slide. Disclaimer: I do not condone this behavior!

 

[Gadzooks]

How do you think about trail braking technique? It’s not something I have practiced and am a bit paranoid about because I’m so focused on the braking in a straight line thing.

Most of the braking is in a straight line - so no change from what you are doing but as your confidence increases you will be ok to release the brakes gradually as you turn in. There is plenty of steering and chassis feel to tell you whether you are getting close to the limit. I

 

[seriously]

This makes sense. I usually brake hard, heel toe and then try to be
smooth into and out of the corner. Makes sense to sort of lightly stay on the brake to keep the weight over the front instead of coming off of it so as to shift the balance to the back - you already have a rear heavy car.

I can kind of visualize how it might look if you were following a car that was trail braking and when you would see the brake lights turn off more into the turn than normal. Good to know.

 

[morphious]

My first ever track day car was a 1995 Toyota MR2. Whilst that was nowhere near as powerful as the Emira, it was mid-engined and RWD, and it taught me a LOT about driving dynamics, driving on the limit and just how dramatic things can get when you nudge over the limit.

It is due to all of the things I learnt (and mistakes I made) driving that at 10/10ths (and sometimes beyond!) on the track that I NEVER go anywhere near that level of commitment on the road.

I also believe it made me a much better driver, much more conscious and respectful of the machine around me and the things that can so easily upset a car's composure and mechanical grip (especially on unpredictable roads).

My current track car is a Mazda RX-8, much better balanced than the MR2, still RWD, but 50-50 weight distribution and a lot easier to play with the balance at the edge of grip.

I have had a few high-power AWD road cars, and they do tend to be much more predictable when pushing hard, but only in certain scenarios (applying acceleration out of corners being a prime example), but they are certainly not immune to 'inappropriate' driver inputs.

I will certainly be treating the Emira with respect on the road, whilst still enjoying it. The mid-engined RWD format is fun, but does have some dynamic 'quirks' that others do not.

One of my first cars, 1991 1/2 MR2 Turbo. Loved it, thus wanting an Emira.