PPF/ Paint Adhesion

[FederGigant]

Where the paint was pulled off on that Hethel Yellow car, there is a small strip of factory installed PPF directly behind the rear wheels.

I suspect the PPF installer tried to remove it to PPF the entire rear bumper and that’s what caused the paint to peel off. They probably tired to pull it off like sticky tape in cold weather without heating it first. 😲

You are right. I just looked at my car and there is a PPF stripe exactly where the paint came off fitted from the factory. They might have put it on too early which is one issue, and the detailer did a very bad job in not removing it with enough care, which is another issue.
All in all I drove my car at 180 km/h on the Autobahn and it lives outside in absolute shit weather atm, and there is nothing wrong with the paint, no chips, no nothing. Calm down guys, most of the issues you find on here are one off things. The only "real" issues to my knowledge are the wipers, and the seat belts. Both not safety relevant in my opinion. I drove the car in heavy rain and a lot of spray from the other cars and yes, the wipers were a bit too slow, but you can still see and still drive. Lotus will fix it via software eventually and all is good. The seat belts that won't come out are annoying, but that's also an easy fix for the dealer.
The paint however is very good, as lots of detailers already reported. Maybe there were some cars with too short drying times, but most of the cars (like 99%) are fine and the paint seems to be quite durable. I will not get anything PPF'd and just see what will happen above 250 km/h once it's run in. In the end it's just a car, don't overthink everything. Mine works perfectly fine, is very well made, has only the wiper and (once in a while) the belt issue which will both be solved during the first service, and is a lot of joy every time I look at it or drive it. Don't believe everything the internet tells you

 

[kitkat]

Where the paint was pulled off on that Hethel Yellow car, there is a small strip of factory installed PPF directly behind the rear wheels.

I suspect the PPF installer tried to remove it to PPF the entire rear bumper and that’s what caused the paint to peel off. They probably tired to pull it off like sticky tape in cold weather without heating it first. 😲

This story makes way more sense, however I disagree that even the most basic ppf installer wouldn’t steam it to warm it up before removal. Ppf installers do this regularly.

 

[4MIR3]

Men in the next life I will get a shop for ppf, this mania is getting crazy

How did you drive 10 years ago your cars without protection ? Crazy boys …. 😝😝

Ten years ago the paint was different. It was harder. Paints now need to be eco friendly which results in softer paint.

 

[FederGigant]

Ten years ago the paint was different. It was harder. Paints now need to be eco friendly which results in softer paint.

10 years ago the paints were exactly the same water based paints as today.

 

[4MIR3]

10 years ago the paints were exactly the same water based paints as today.

My Porsche paint on my 2012 was definitely harder than any Porsche beyond that... so maybe 11 years ago... LOL.

 

[FederGigant]

My Porsche paint on my 2012 was definitely harder than any Porsche beyond that... so maybe 11 years ago... LOL.

Water based paints are mandatory since 2007, but maybe the stuff they are using since then got worse over time 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[JasonR]

I’m now thinking ppf the car after a month. Give it time to cure

 

[AndyVX]

How long after it has been painted do you expect delivery, mine was December manufacture, feb delivery

 

[Porter]

Water based paints are mandatory since 2007, but maybe the stuff they are using since then got worse over time 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's curing time. Water based paints take *way* longer to achieve full hardness.

 

[kitkat]

Some anecdotal — friend just complained to me that he just had his Camaro PPFed, had plenty of time to cure — PPF installer had to remove and reapply a PPF piece, and paint came with it. Doesn’t really matter if it’s OE or not, if it’s had time to cure or not — this stuff happens all the time, it’s just one of those dirty little secrets that’s not talked about much in the PPF industry.

 

[EspritGuy]

Lotus USA stated in an email that the real reason for the NA delay was that Hethel is no longer allowed to use paint baking for curing due to rising energy costs and inflation. So instead passing the cost to the customer, they decided to implement a new more natural ambient temp curing... which now requires a 90 day port side warehousing. Once that time period has expired, our cars will be released to distribution to dealers.

That explains the hue and cry.
`The wait` is like watching paint dry.

 

[eriegz]

Some anecdotal — friend just complained to me that he just had his Camaro PPFed, had plenty of time to cure — PPF installer had to remove and reapply a PPF piece, and paint came with it. Doesn’t really matter if it’s OE or not, if it’s had time to cure or not — this stuff happens all the time, it’s just one of those dirty little secrets that’s not talked about much in the PPF industry.

Yikes, but good to know...

So, ceramic is the way to go, then?

 

[kitkat]

Yikes, but good to know...

So, ceramic is the way to go, then?

Ceramic doesn't provide any sort of real protection, it's got a different purpose. Ceramic fills in valleys in paint to make it flatter so it reflects light better. It sheets water off better as a secondary benefit.

A layer of ceramic is 1-2 microns thick.
PPFs are 200-300 microns thick.

You can see why PPFs actually protect against scratches and ceramic doesn't really.

There's no best way to go overall, there's just four things you have to balance: your goals, cost, advantages and disadvantages.

 

[FlyNavy01]

Some anecdotal — friend just complained to me that he just had his Camaro PPFed, had plenty of time to cure — PPF installer had to remove and reapply a PPF piece, and paint came with it. Doesn’t really matter if it’s OE or not, if it’s had time to cure or not — this stuff happens all the time, it’s just one of those dirty little secrets that’s not talked about much in the PPF industry.

I disagree that it "happens all the time". I just replaced a PPFed section on my daily driver with over 50k miles and 4 years in the FL sun and it peeled off like it was new. Between dozens of my car enthusiast friends' vehicles, to hundreds if not thousands of car forum "acquaintances", I've never heard of this in a decade of PPF being popular on the market until now.

XPEL's website states typical paint bond strength between 16-25MPa on most modern cars, whereas XPEL adhesive bonds at .0753MPa. Even after years of sunlight exposure their PPF adhesive may increase to 0.17MPa. That's anywhere from 94-332 times less strong of a bond than the factory paint to the panel.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but if it did frequently the PPF market would not exist in the size that it does today. I'll be getting my Emira fully PPFed since I plan to keep it a long time.

 

[digilotus]

whether PPF pulls off paint during removal generally depends on the quality of PPF used and the method of removal. Reputable PPF films use specific adhesive parameters (as @FlyNavy01 points out) that limit paint etching and adhesive strength even after strong IR/UV and high temperature exposure for long periods.

Aside from PPF pulling paint, some PPF will significantly yellow over time, lose its glossiness and even form hairline cracks. Old PPF may also be a pain to remove if the film has lost its elastic properties meaning it now comes off in very small pieces and leaves the adhesive behind on the paint.

I'm sure there are lots of instances where PPF has pulled off paint with it. But we don't know what film was used, how old it was, whether the panel in question was repainted before PPF installation, the quality of the paint, and whether the detailer heated it sufficiently to soften the PPF adhesive & film before removing it.

I had a brand new car that had developed a major paint defect due to a paint chemistry issue (one of the well known auto paint brands). When exposed to UV for long periods, the metallic topcoat would delaminate from the undercoat. If PPF had been applied to this car it would definitely have pulled the paint off upon its removal, not because of an issue with PPF, but because there was a chemical failure in the paint. The bond strength of the paint would have been weaker than the bond strength of the PPF adhesive. A case of the weakest link!

But using a quality PPF on a quality paint job should not cause any issues, even after long periods in harsh conditions. So yes, I'm applying PPF to my Emira when it arrives.