Audio thread- to KEF or not to KEF?

[EMIRADILEMMA]

I am familiar with the KEF brand and their audiophile speakers over 40 -50 years. I am thrilled by the fact that the Emira will be he first car model to feature this brand’s coaxial speakers in a car stereo system.

However, except for a brief demo of the Emira’s car stereo system at my Lotus dealer with preset music material (not of my choice, and of unknown bitrate and quality level), it did not enthuse me at all. I far prefer the Harman Kardon car stereos in my 2008 and 2013 BMW 3-series cars).

Anyhow, except for the KEF speakers, the rest of the system (the electronics) come from a more “generic” source, and it is unknown who did the overall “design coordination” of this audio system. The power amp is said to be branded Harman Kardon (DCY11), but the Harman Kardon brand itself has been sold off a few times, and the design of new products are farmed out to subcontractors, so there is no guarantee of a particular sound or quality, and possibly little consistency between individual products.

The subwoofer in the Emira is an Australian design called The Fresh Air Speaker, and the characteristic is that it does not have a dedicated enclosure to itself, but it is mounted internally into the Emira in a way that it uses the cavity of the Emira itself as the enclosure. This will definitely mean that it will sound and work differently depending on whether the side windows are open or closed. I would definitely prefer a subwoofer with a clearly defined enclosure, even though it has to be a small one, and that the bass frequencies will be limited by the size of the enclosure.

Soon a few friends in Japan will take delivery of their Emira V6 FE, and I may have more chance to listen and test. However, so far my overall impression from reading others impressions on this forum is that the sound quality of the Emira’s KEF audio is “so-so”, and that you have better focus on listening to the exhaust and supercharger (In the V6 FE), and that the Emira as sportscar has other attractions than audio quality.

After I get my own car, this is obviously an area that I will explore and work on. I may for example switch to another subwoofer. I have a particular German brand in mind. I do believe the KEF speakers themselves will work well, and I will look for ways to enhance the core of the audio system and the power supply to the system.

Thanks so much for the information! The HK system in my current 2019 BMW is very decent but still nothing compared to the B&O I had in my old 2008 Audi. I was hoping that the KEF would fit somewhere between the 2. Anyway you're right, I doubt a fantastically good speaker system is required as the engine would be the main source of aural joy when driving.

 

[Hell4Leather]

I am familiar with the KEF brand and their audiophile speakers over 40 -50 years. I am thrilled by the fact that the Emira will be he first car model to feature this brand’s coaxial speakers in a car stereo system.

However, except for a brief demo of the Emira’s car stereo system at my Lotus dealer with preset music material (not of my choice, and of unknown bitrate and quality level), it did not enthuse me at all. I far prefer the Harman Kardon car stereos in my 2008 and 2013 BMW 3-series cars).

Anyhow, except for the KEF speakers, the rest of the system (the electronics) come from a more “generic” source, and it is unknown who did the overall “design coordination” of this audio system. The power amp is said to be branded Harman Kardon (DCY11), but the Harman Kardon brand itself has been sold off a few times, and the design of new products are farmed out to subcontractors, so there is no guarantee of a particular sound or quality, and possibly little consistency between individual products.

The subwoofer in the Emira is an Australian design called The Fresh Air Speaker, and the characteristic is that it does not have a dedicated enclosure to itself, but it is mounted internally into the Emira in a way that it uses the cavity of the Emira itself as the enclosure. This will definitely mean that it will sound and work differently depending on whether the side windows are open or closed. I would definitely prefer a subwoofer with a clearly defined enclosure, even though it has to be a small one, and that the bass frequencies will be limited by the size of the enclosure.

Soon a few friends in Japan will take delivery of their Emira V6 FE, and I may have more chance to listen and test. However, so far my overall impression from reading others impressions on this forum is that the sound quality of the Emira’s KEF audio is “so-so”, and that you have better focus on listening to the exhaust and supercharger (In the V6 FE), and that the Emira as sportscar has other attractions than audio quality.

After I get my own car, this is obviously an area that I will explore and work on. I may for example switch to another subwoofer. I have a particular German brand in mind. I do believe the KEF speakers themselves will work well, and I will look for ways to enhance the core of the audio system and the power supply to the system.

There was a thread dedicated to the KEF speakers but I can’t find it.

 

[VL3X]

There was a thread dedicated to the KEF speakers but I can’t find it.

Could be this one: Audio Thread - To KEF or not to KEF
I'll be moving the audio related talk to that (this) thread soon.

*Posts moved - Please continue the audio/KEF related discussion here.

 

[Honcho]

The Emira is way too loud for decent audio. You’ll be able to get something that sounds good when turned up loads but never as good when compared to other quieter cars at lower volumes.

 

[JonFuller]

 

[JimH]

Upgrade the sound system in your Lotus Emira today! — Cambridge Car Audio

Lotus Emira Sound System Upgrade! Audio Upgrade Packages specifically designed for your Lotus Emira by Cambridge Car Audio!

www.cambridgecar.audio

 

[JonFuller]

Yeah, that top option looks like a bargain eh

 

[ToonFan]

I can appreciate the fabrication work to get the larger mids into the doors properly. Watching the video; i hadn't realized the KEF's were only 3" two ways. 6.5" would have been a better move. I could pass on replacing the mids in the rear as they only need to be there for fill. As for low end; 6x9? Really?

 

[Nova]

I can appreciate the fabrication work to get the larger mids into the doors properly. Watching the video; i hadn't realized the KEF's were only 3" two ways. 6.5" would have been a better move. I could pass on replacing the mids in the rear as they only need to be there for fill. As for low end; 6x9? Really?

I'm not sure these installers knows what they are talking about even if their workmanship is top notch.

After looking into it some more, the Uni-Q driver looks to be similar to the one used in the KEF LS60 speaker system. It has a 0.75" tweeter and a 4" midrange driver. The driver is not 3" as claimed in the Youtube video. Now, driver size measurement is fuzzy at best. They can vary greatly depending on the manufacturer and how the measurement is made. Some manufacturers measure all the way to the edges of the basket and others measure to the edge of the surround. It's almost the case like TV size measurements where a 65" TV's actual size can vary within the range of an inch. But for certain KEF calls this driver a 4-inch 100mm unit.

In the LS60, the Uni-Q driver is crossed over to the woofers at 400Hz. I would assume a similar crossover point for the one used in the Emira. The mid-bass drivers being behind the user is not really an issue since frequencies below 400Hz do not contribute to fore-aft localization. Humans determine fore/aft location of a sound source based on how upper frequencies above 3kHz is shaped by the outer ear. As long as the mid-bass drivers are placed outside of the listener's position and can generate phase and loudness difference, their stereo effect will work just fine.

The subwoofer is indeed a joke.

 

[Speedy Emira]

Quite funny when he says these systems are not heavy are not even as heavy as a passenger.even if it was 2/3 the weight of a 75kg passenger I wouldn’t want to add that much weight.
I’d be surprised if they get many takers on this especially with all the posts regarding weight saving on here.

 

[KJWEmira]

For those owners who which to upgrade their KEF audio system – Speaker mounts soon to be available!

I will have front and rear speaker mounts up for grabs soon. These are currently with a 3D printing company (UK) and I await the final version. Once I get these in my hand, I will post pics and a price.

This will allow owners to install 6.5” speakers in the doors (currently 3”) and replace the 5” speakers in the rear with far superior 5” speakers.

Upgrading the KEF audio isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, and yes, it will add weight, but this is what makes me happy. The largest weight gain will come from the addition of sound deadening, as there is currently ZERO…which is probably why the original KEF doesn’t sound as great as it could.

I am performing this upgrade myself, currently my car is in bits in my own garage. So, should anyone have questions, or would like pictures, or advice then just holla. I can also provide speaker wire colour identification on the current Amps (yes, there are originally 2!) to make it super easy and quicker for others to do.

 

[Nova]

For those owners who which to upgrade their KEF audio system – Speaker mounts soon to be available!

I will have front and rear speaker mounts up for grabs soon. These are currently with a 3D printing company (UK) and I await the final version. Once I get these in my hand, I will post pics and a price.

This will allow owners to install 6.5” speakers in the doors (currently 3”) and replace the 5” speakers in the rear with far superior 5” speakers.

Upgrading the KEF audio isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, and yes, it will add weight, but this is what makes me happy. The largest weight gain will come from the addition of sound deadening, as there is currently ZERO…which is probably why the original KEF doesn’t sound as great as it could.

I am performing this upgrade myself, currently my car is in bits in my own garage. So, should anyone have questions, or would like pictures, or advice then just holla. I can also provide speaker wire colour identification on the current Amps (yes, there are originally 2!) to make it super easy and quicker for others to do.

Wow! Amazing way to join the community! Welcome!

Do you mind placing a ruler across the KEF driver and showing us a photo?

Also, what do you plan to do with the amplification? Reuse the OEM amp with your new drivers?

 

[denk0815]

For those owners who which to upgrade their KEF audio system – Speaker mounts soon to be available!

I will have front and rear speaker mounts up for grabs soon. These are currently with a 3D printing company (UK) and I await the final version. Once I get these in my hand, I will post pics and a price.

This will allow owners to install 6.5” speakers in the doors (currently 3”) and replace the 5” speakers in the rear with far superior 5” speakers.

Upgrading the KEF audio isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, and yes, it will add weight, but this is what makes me happy. The largest weight gain will come from the addition of sound deadening, as there is currently ZERO…which is probably why the original KEF doesn’t sound as great as it could.

I am performing this upgrade myself, currently my car is in bits in my own garage. So, should anyone have questions, or would like pictures, or advice then just holla. I can also provide speaker wire colour identification on the current Amps (yes, there are originally 2!) to make it super easy and quicker for others to do.

That's marvellous!
I'm very interested in improving the audio quality but think insulation is the first step.
It would be nice if they would set up a wiki for the topic, as I can imagine that many people feel the same way.

 

[KJWEmira]

Wow! Amazing way to join the community! Welcome!

Do you mind placing a ruler across the KEF driver and showing us a photo?

Also, what do you plan to do with the amplification? Reuse the OEM amp with your new drivers?

Hi & thank you!

There are 2 Amps / Drivers.

The silver one is for the Rear speakers and Sub only. This measures 22cm (including the large black plug) x 19 cm.

The black one drives both door speakers and the one in the center of the dashboard. This measures 20.5cm x 11 cm.

At the moment both will stay. My plan to take the speaker outputs from these and run them into / through an Audison AF M8.14 bit driver. This is a larger amp to run my new door speakers, rear speakers and A-pillar tweeters. The Sub I've chosen has its own Amp.

 

[KJWEmira]

That's marvellous!
I'm very interested in improving the audio quality but think insulation is the first step.
It would be nice if they would set up a wiki for the topic, as I can imagine that many people feel the same way.

Thank you!

Yes, I would agree regarding sound deadening / insulation. If I get time after installing my sound deadening, I may reinstall the original speakers just to make a video & hear the difference - buts that's a lot of time.

Should you pull everything apart to install the insulation then you may as well do an upgrade....ha ha

Currently the only working speaker in the car is the one in the dashboard - it sounds terrible.... I don't plan to use this, it'll just be disconnected at the amp and left in place. There is no way to access this speaker without causing potential damage to the cover or dashboard, plus if removed you'll just see a hole when looking through the windscreen.

 

[Nova]

Hi & thank you!

There are 2 Amps / Drivers.

The silver one is for the Rear speakers and Sub only. This measures 22cm (including the large black plug) x 19 cm.

The black one drives both door speakers and the one in the center of the dashboard. This measures 20.5cm x 11 cm.

At the moment both will stay. My plan to take the speaker outputs from these and run them into / through an Audison AF M8.14 bit driver. This is a larger amp to run my new door speakers, rear speakers and A-pillar tweeters. The Sub I've chosen has its own Amp.

View attachment 37589

Sorry, I meant the KEF Uni-Q driver in the front doors.

Looking forward to seeing more of your project.

 

[KJWEmira]

Sorry, I meant the KEF Uni-Q driver in the front doors.

Looking forward to seeing more of your project.

 

[KJWEmira]

View attachment 37591

 

[lynchy73]

Hi & thank you!

There are 2 Amps / Drivers.

The silver one is for the Rear speakers and Sub only. This measures 22cm (including the large black plug) x 19 cm.

The black one drives both door speakers and the one in the center of the dashboard. This measures 20.5cm x 11 cm.

At the moment both will stay. My plan to take the speaker outputs from these and run them into / through an Audison AF M8.14 bit driver. This is a larger amp to run my new door speakers, rear speakers and A-pillar tweeters. The Sub I've chosen has its own Amp.

Would be great if you could get a signal wire that’s feeding the standard amp, rather than use the standard amp outputs. Shouldn’t be too difficult to determine those low level signals, they should be screened cables.

 

[lynchy73]

View attachment 37591

Hmmm, so a 4”. A bit silly for Cambridge Audio to call them 3”. They are well aware driver size is not expressed as the diaphragm diameter.